6 ms·

This is about helping people in need and not a gift from government.

by Ididntdothis 7y ago

SilasX 7y ago
Whether you call it a gift or not doesn't change that it's functionally a penalty on working.
- melvinram 7y ago
  Yes, but the goal should not be to treat everyone fairly. The goal should be to help people get through this crisis.
- tomxor 7y ago
  What penalty? it's the other way around, you take a 20% penalty if you stop working, and note that it's not for people who voluntarily stop working.
  - user5994461 7y ago
    You can easily save 10 to 20% when unemployed because you don't have to pay for daily transportation (tube/train/car), lunch outdoors every day and a few other things. So the difference in disposable income is about null in most cases.
    - watwut 7y ago
      You can take lunch from home and eat that. I know enough people who do that. People who bought yearly or other long term tickets (majority of frequent travellers) dont save.
    - tomxor 7y ago
      Even if that is the case, it's not your choice, as I said before - it does not apply to those voluntarily unemployed. You are projecting arguments of basic income onto an economic solution for a pandemic where people are suddenly forced into unemployment or unpaid leave for a very specific reason... Given a lack of choice how can paying wages make any difference to their employment behavior. I'll repeat: this is not basic income.
      - user5994461 7y ago
        This had nothing to do with basic income. We're talking unemployment for people who get laid off from their jobs.
        tomxor 7y ago
        Then you clearly didn't read the article, the headline is: > The government will pay the wages of employees unable to work due to the coronavirus pandemic
  - SilasX 7y ago
    When you stop working, you also get a lot of time back.
    - RobertKerans 7y ago
      Yes of course, that's exactly what's happening at the minute. Everybody who can't work is having the most terrific fun on this unplanned holiday time they've suddenly been handed where they don't have to pay bills or buy food or support dependents./s You're surely just being deliberately naïve here, playing the naif? I just don't really see the point I guess
      - SilasX 7y ago
        Ignoring the penalization of work is being naive? Ignoring the "not having to work" in calculating how well off someone is, because you can make a snarky remark about how mixed a blessing it is to stay home, is naive? I would say the opposite. I could just as well ask if you're just trying to be clever devil's advocate here.
        RobertKerans 7y ago
        Yes, I think you're being deliberately naïve. Maybe if people were spherical cows, you might have a point, but you're just acting as if there is no such thing as society, as if people aren't going to want friends and family (in particular) who can't work to be supported through this period. It's a slightly bizarre way to view this handout, given the situation that is very clearly occurring. And some people will make that calculation and figure out a way to officially be unable to work and pick up government money. That's always happened, it's called malingering.
        SilasX 7y ago
        Well, I guess if people didn't avoid work because of the incentive effects of social assistance systems, then your model would be better, but that's not the world we live in. >And some people will make that calculation and figure out a way to officially be unable to work and pick up government money. That's always happened, it's called malingering. Wait, you agree this happens, despite just having waxed eloquent about "living in society", but then condescend to everyone who suggests it does? Right, I'm the one wasting everyone's time here...
- mr_sturd 7y ago
  I feel lucky to be working and occupied. It has been a much more sure position, and I'm not left to dwell on the shit storm we're all going through.
- thatguy0900 7y ago
  I would rather not get $1000 and not have to fight a large portion of the population for new jobs once this is over.
- watwut 7y ago
  As someone who can and does work from home, I do not perceive it as punishment and I am fine with people in worst situation then I am getting supper.
- ClumsyPilot 7y ago
  Are you trolling? Millions of people lost their jobs and can't feed their family untill quarantine is over. Do you want riots in the middle of a pandemic? Get your head out of your ass.
megablast 7y ago
Are you upset you don’t have a wheelchair?
- Ididntdothis 7y ago
  I don’t understand the question.

This is about helping people in need and not a gift from government.

SilasX 7y ago

Whether you call it a gift or not doesn't change that it's functionally a penalty on working.

melvinram 7y ago
Yes, but the goal should not be to treat everyone fairly. The goal should be to help people get through this crisis.
tomxor 7y ago
What penalty? it's the other way around, you take a 20% penalty if you stop working, and note that it's not for people who voluntarily stop working.
- user5994461 7y ago
  You can easily save 10 to 20% when unemployed because you don't have to pay for daily transportation (tube/train/car), lunch outdoors every day and a few other things. So the difference in disposable income is about null in most cases.
  - watwut 7y ago
    You can take lunch from home and eat that. I know enough people who do that. People who bought yearly or other long term tickets (majority of frequent travellers) dont save.
  - tomxor 7y ago
    Even if that is the case, it's not your choice, as I said before - it does not apply to those voluntarily unemployed. You are projecting arguments of basic income onto an economic solution for a pandemic where people are suddenly forced into unemployment or unpaid leave for a very specific reason... Given a lack of choice how can paying wages make any difference to their employment behavior. I'll repeat: this is not basic income.
    - user5994461 7y ago
      This had nothing to do with basic income. We're talking unemployment for people who get laid off from their jobs.
      - tomxor 7y ago
        Then you clearly didn't read the article, the headline is: > The government will pay the wages of employees unable to work due to the coronavirus pandemic
- SilasX 7y ago
  When you stop working, you also get a lot of time back.
  - RobertKerans 7y ago
    Yes of course, that's exactly what's happening at the minute. Everybody who can't work is having the most terrific fun on this unplanned holiday time they've suddenly been handed where they don't have to pay bills or buy food or support dependents./s You're surely just being deliberately naïve here, playing the naif? I just don't really see the point I guess
    - SilasX 7y ago
      Ignoring the penalization of work is being naive? Ignoring the "not having to work" in calculating how well off someone is, because you can make a snarky remark about how mixed a blessing it is to stay home, is naive? I would say the opposite. I could just as well ask if you're just trying to be clever devil's advocate here.
      - RobertKerans 7y ago
        Yes, I think you're being deliberately naïve. Maybe if people were spherical cows, you might have a point, but you're just acting as if there is no such thing as society, as if people aren't going to want friends and family (in particular) who can't work to be supported through this period. It's a slightly bizarre way to view this handout, given the situation that is very clearly occurring. And some people will make that calculation and figure out a way to officially be unable to work and pick up government money. That's always happened, it's called malingering.
        SilasX 7y ago
        Well, I guess if people didn't avoid work because of the incentive effects of social assistance systems, then your model would be better, but that's not the world we live in. >And some people will make that calculation and figure out a way to officially be unable to work and pick up government money. That's always happened, it's called malingering. Wait, you agree this happens, despite just having waxed eloquent about "living in society", but then condescend to everyone who suggests it does? Right, I'm the one wasting everyone's time here...
mr_sturd 7y ago
I feel lucky to be working and occupied. It has been a much more sure position, and I'm not left to dwell on the shit storm we're all going through.
thatguy0900 7y ago
I would rather not get $1000 and not have to fight a large portion of the population for new jobs once this is over.
watwut 7y ago
As someone who can and does work from home, I do not perceive it as punishment and I am fine with people in worst situation then I am getting supper.
ClumsyPilot 7y ago
Are you trolling? Millions of people lost their jobs and can't feed their family untill quarantine is over. Do you want riots in the middle of a pandemic? Get your head out of your ass.

megablast 7y ago

Are you upset you don’t have a wheelchair?

Ididntdothis 7y ago
I don’t understand the question.