7 ms·

This chloroquinine rush is already out of control. My pharmacy is already out of it and is unable to procure from other pharmacies (which are also out already!)

This chloroquinine rush is already out of control. My pharmacy is already out of it and is unable to procure from other pharmacies (which are also out already!) My pharmacist placed orders for all her patients to prefill prescriptions (where possible) for the next few months. I can understand a shortage when there's a clear evidence-based need, but the rumour-mill hasn't even ramped to full bore yet and it's already harming people with a pre-existing need for the medication. It's even worse _if_ the medication works to prevent or shorten c19 infections, because the people currently taking chloroquinine are very likely high-risk (immunocompromised) patients. Really wish people would chill out. Note - This affects me, as I take the medication. It's scary to think I could be without it at some point in the future as it's been practically life-changing.

throwaway894345 7y ago
I really hope this virus prompts our disaster management agencies to get their shit together, and specifically to consider supply chain security as part of their threat model (and no, we don't meaningfully do this or we wouldn't have such a pitiful national reserve of respirators and other respiratory treatment devices following SARS and MURS). Not sure exactly what this would look like, but identifying key partners in industry and working with them to enable them to turn-key ramp up production seems obvious.
- blhack 7y ago
  How could our disaster management agencies have gotten their shit together to anticipate a run on an old anit-malaria drug?
  - throwaway894345 7y ago
    Optimize for the aspects of the supply chain that don't depend on the specific drug. For example, the packaging of pills probably doesn't need to vary that much in general. But the point isn't that we are prepared for every eventuality (e.g., chloroquine), but that we are doing due diligence in preparing for the likely eventualities (e.g., general purpose respiratory treatments like ventilators).
  - jdkee 7y ago
    As a previous commentator noted, the Chinese were providing guidance on chloroquine a month ago.
annoyingnoob 7y ago
We stocked up on my daughters medications last week, there was already a non-covid-19 related shortage. Thank god we got what we need for several weeks. Its pretty scary when you rely on a common drug and it runs out.
- TeMPOraL 7y ago
  Reminds me of a comment I read on Reddit some week ago; the commenter was going from store to store looking for disinfectant for a family member that has a prosthetic and needs to disinfect it daily, lest an infection gets into the wound.
  - ng12 7y ago
    Those tiny square alcohol prep pads (e.g. for diabetics and others who need daily injections) are sold out everywhere. I suspect people who couldn't find hand sanitizer or Clorox just grabbed whatever sanitizing products they could.
    - dannyw 7y ago
      I clean stuff with them. I don’t want water and some antibacterial agent, I just want some nice alcohol.
      - annoyingnoob 7y ago
        When there is not a pandemic happening you can get 99% isopropyl at a reasonable cost. Its great for cleaning electronics and lots of other things.
- munk-a 7y ago
  Yea, my wife takes plaquenil to treat arthritis and I asked her to double check her supply when these rumors started floating around. It's always scary to imagine a bunch of folks going out and hording the stuff to scalp it off later.
altcognito 7y ago
This is where having a fully funded CDC and pandemic team in the US pays off. They would have been paying very close attention for weeks on end in China, Italy and South Korea and many approaches could have been already dead-ended before it even significantly reached out shores. To say nothing of actually being in the process of ramping up medications that HAVE shown to be effective. It feels like we are starting from ground zero when that should simply not be the case.
- throwaway894345 7y ago
  I think everyone would like to see the CDC be better funded. Hindsight makes that an obvious mistake, but monitoring C19 should have been their number one priority in any case. From January onwards it was clear that it was the number one threat. There's still no explanation (afaik) for why they rolled their own test instead of using the WHO's test, nor have they effectively communicated their plans for ramping up testing or medical capacity. I don't see how this is anything besides mismanagement (e.g., how does funding impact which test they used? Presumably being under-funded would prompt them to use the test that the rest of the world is going with instead of rolling their own), and I really hope congress or the justice dept rips into this after the crisis is averted. EDIT: Note that I say all of this as someone who is a big believer in "it's almost always more complicated/nuanced than it looks", but there seems to be no information about said nuance or complexity.
  - Wowfunhappy 7y ago
    > There's still no explanation (afaik) for why they rolled their own test instead of using the WHO's test The explanation is obvious, isn't it? "We thought our test would work, and it would be better." It was stupid, to be sure. It would have been a stupid risk even if it had paid off—although in that case, few would be chastising them, and many would be thankful.
    - throwaway894345 7y ago
      Agree, and that's kind of my point. Being "fully funded" wasn't the problem--it was hubris/mismanagement.
cm2187 7y ago
It's more than the rumour-mill. There was a scientific study with a small number of patients that showed clear results, and several countries have now launched larger studies to confirm those findings.
- chimichangga 7y ago
  Also, Bayer thinks there's enough merit to this to issue their own press release and donate 3M pills. "New data from initial preclinical and evolving clinical research conducted in China, while limited, shows potential for the use of Resochin in treating patients with COVID-19 infection. Bayer in recent days has been in talks with the White House, HHS, CDC, and the FDA, offering any assistance we can provide with a focus on donating Resochin to help in the government’s efforts to combat the virus. Currently not approved for use in the United States, Bayer is working with appropriate agencies on an Emergency Use Authorization for the drug’s use in the U.S. Bayer thanks the Trump administration for moving quickly to enable this donation and will continue to work closely with the administration to support its efforts in the fight against COVID-19." https://bayer2019tf.q4web.com/news/news-details/2020/Bayer-Partners-with-US-Government-on-Major-Product-Donation-to-Fight-Coronavirus/default.aspx https://bayer2019tf.q4web.com/news/news-details/2020/Bayer-P...
  - SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
    An optimist would say this is Bayer being benevolent, a pessimist would see this as them taking advantage of a situation to make a lot of money out of a possible snake oil during this time of panic.
- AdmiralBumbleB 7y ago
  The rumour-mill is that it _will_ prevent or cure. As you've said, studies are still being conducted. I've read the original chinese study and it's promising, but there's still work to be done.
- the8472 7y ago
  No, that's the rumor-mill, spreading the preliminary results as if they were a confirmed cure.
uwuhn 7y ago
I bought aquarium chloroquine to use as a last-ditch resort if I basically have to choose between taking it or dying due to hospital overcapacity. No harm to patients there IMO. I spent $60 for the 10 grams recommended for a course (.5 g a day). That was last week, and it's so much more expensive now.
- camhenlin 7y ago
  Is there any difference in aquarium cloroquine and prescription? I’m assuming mostly manufacturing conditions How do you plan on measuring your dose and dosing it?
- icelancer 7y ago
  Do you have a source for it? I've had to buy through underground labs; could not find any Avaclor.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
alkonaut 7y ago
How to people get it? I assume it’s a prescription drug everywhere? Is everyone friends with a doctor or is my expectations on doctors too high (that they shouldn’t prescribe something just because a patient asks for it, perhaps especially not if the patient asks for it)?
scotty79 7y ago
I bought chloroquine few weeks ago when there was still plenty of it. A week ago it was out of stock not necessarily due to rush buying but because government bought out all the stock to give it to hospitals to use if it turns out to be effective.
matsemann 7y ago
In Norway it has been restricted after doctors prescribed lots of it for themselves... Way to undermine the efforts.
ketamine__ 7y ago
I implore you to make a post on HN if you run out. From reading posts on HN I would suspect many have bought it online and may be willing to do the right thing and mail it to you.
tibbydudeza 7y ago
You must see my family whatsapp group ... all sort of weird folk remedies and weird home made concoctions (usually harmless involving mixing garlic and flu medicine) to protect against this new virus.
Recurecur 7y ago
How is this possible? It requires a prescription, no? SMH...

throwaway894345 7y ago

I really hope this virus prompts our disaster management agencies to get their shit together, and specifically to consider supply chain security as part of their threat model (and no, we don't meaningfully do this or we wouldn't have such a pitiful national reserve of respirators and other respiratory treatment devices following SARS and MURS). Not sure exactly what this would look like, but identifying key partners in industry and working with them to enable them to turn-key ramp up production seems obvious.

blhack 7y ago
How could our disaster management agencies have gotten their shit together to anticipate a run on an old anit-malaria drug?
- throwaway894345 7y ago
  Optimize for the aspects of the supply chain that don't depend on the specific drug. For example, the packaging of pills probably doesn't need to vary that much in general. But the point isn't that we are prepared for every eventuality (e.g., chloroquine), but that we are doing due diligence in preparing for the likely eventualities (e.g., general purpose respiratory treatments like ventilators).
- jdkee 7y ago
  As a previous commentator noted, the Chinese were providing guidance on chloroquine a month ago.

annoyingnoob 7y ago

We stocked up on my daughters medications last week, there was already a non-covid-19 related shortage. Thank god we got what we need for several weeks. Its pretty scary when you rely on a common drug and it runs out.

TeMPOraL 7y ago
Reminds me of a comment I read on Reddit some week ago; the commenter was going from store to store looking for disinfectant for a family member that has a prosthetic and needs to disinfect it daily, lest an infection gets into the wound.
- ng12 7y ago
  Those tiny square alcohol prep pads (e.g. for diabetics and others who need daily injections) are sold out everywhere. I suspect people who couldn't find hand sanitizer or Clorox just grabbed whatever sanitizing products they could.
  - dannyw 7y ago
    I clean stuff with them. I don’t want water and some antibacterial agent, I just want some nice alcohol.
    - annoyingnoob 7y ago
      When there is not a pandemic happening you can get 99% isopropyl at a reasonable cost. Its great for cleaning electronics and lots of other things.
munk-a 7y ago
Yea, my wife takes plaquenil to treat arthritis and I asked her to double check her supply when these rumors started floating around. It's always scary to imagine a bunch of folks going out and hording the stuff to scalp it off later.

altcognito 7y ago

This is where having a fully funded CDC and pandemic team in the US pays off. They would have been paying very close attention for weeks on end in China, Italy and South Korea and many approaches could have been already dead-ended before it even significantly reached out shores. To say nothing of actually being in the process of ramping up medications that HAVE shown to be effective. It feels like we are starting from ground zero when that should simply not be the case.

throwaway894345 7y ago
I think everyone would like to see the CDC be better funded. Hindsight makes that an obvious mistake, but monitoring C19 should have been their number one priority in any case. From January onwards it was clear that it was the number one threat. There's still no explanation (afaik) for why they rolled their own test instead of using the WHO's test, nor have they effectively communicated their plans for ramping up testing or medical capacity. I don't see how this is anything besides mismanagement (e.g., how does funding impact which test they used? Presumably being under-funded would prompt them to use the test that the rest of the world is going with instead of rolling their own), and I really hope congress or the justice dept rips into this after the crisis is averted. EDIT: Note that I say all of this as someone who is a big believer in "it's almost always more complicated/nuanced than it looks", but there seems to be no information about said nuance or complexity.
- Wowfunhappy 7y ago
  > There's still no explanation (afaik) for why they rolled their own test instead of using the WHO's test The explanation is obvious, isn't it? "We thought our test would work, and it would be better." It was stupid, to be sure. It would have been a stupid risk even if it had paid off—although in that case, few would be chastising them, and many would be thankful.
  - throwaway894345 7y ago
    Agree, and that's kind of my point. Being "fully funded" wasn't the problem--it was hubris/mismanagement.

cm2187 7y ago

It's more than the rumour-mill. There was a scientific study with a small number of patients that showed clear results, and several countries have now launched larger studies to confirm those findings.

chimichangga 7y ago
Also, Bayer thinks there's enough merit to this to issue their own press release and donate 3M pills. "New data from initial preclinical and evolving clinical research conducted in China, while limited, shows potential for the use of Resochin in treating patients with COVID-19 infection. Bayer in recent days has been in talks with the White House, HHS, CDC, and the FDA, offering any assistance we can provide with a focus on donating Resochin to help in the government’s efforts to combat the virus. Currently not approved for use in the United States, Bayer is working with appropriate agencies on an Emergency Use Authorization for the drug’s use in the U.S. Bayer thanks the Trump administration for moving quickly to enable this donation and will continue to work closely with the administration to support its efforts in the fight against COVID-19." https://bayer2019tf.q4web.com/news/news-details/2020/Bayer-Partners-with-US-Government-on-Major-Product-Donation-to-Fight-Coronavirus/default.aspx https://bayer2019tf.q4web.com/news/news-details/2020/Bayer-P...
- SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
  An optimist would say this is Bayer being benevolent, a pessimist would see this as them taking advantage of a situation to make a lot of money out of a possible snake oil during this time of panic.
AdmiralBumbleB 7y ago
The rumour-mill is that it _will_ prevent or cure. As you've said, studies are still being conducted. I've read the original chinese study and it's promising, but there's still work to be done.
the8472 7y ago
No, that's the rumor-mill, spreading the preliminary results as if they were a confirmed cure.

uwuhn 7y ago

I bought aquarium chloroquine to use as a last-ditch resort if I basically have to choose between taking it or dying due to hospital overcapacity. No harm to patients there IMO. I spent $60 for the 10 grams recommended for a course (.5 g a day). That was last week, and it's so much more expensive now.

camhenlin 7y ago
Is there any difference in aquarium cloroquine and prescription? I’m assuming mostly manufacturing conditions How do you plan on measuring your dose and dosing it?
icelancer 7y ago
Do you have a source for it? I've had to buy through underground labs; could not find any Avaclor.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

alkonaut 7y ago

How to people get it? I assume it’s a prescription drug everywhere? Is everyone friends with a doctor or is my expectations on doctors too high (that they shouldn’t prescribe something just because a patient asks for it, perhaps especially not if the patient asks for it)?

scotty79 7y ago

I bought chloroquine few weeks ago when there was still plenty of it. A week ago it was out of stock not necessarily due to rush buying but because government bought out all the stock to give it to hospitals to use if it turns out to be effective.

matsemann 7y ago

In Norway it has been restricted after doctors prescribed lots of it for themselves... Way to undermine the efforts.

ketamine__ 7y ago

I implore you to make a post on HN if you run out. From reading posts on HN I would suspect many have bought it online and may be willing to do the right thing and mail it to you.

tibbydudeza 7y ago

You must see my family whatsapp group ... all sort of weird folk remedies and weird home made concoctions (usually harmless involving mixing garlic and flu medicine) to protect against this new virus.

Recurecur 7y ago

How is this possible? It requires a prescription, no? SMH...