13 ms·

You win, RIM (An open letter to RIM's developer relations)

320 points by jammur 16y ago

joelhaasnoot 16y ago
Ah, you definately have never developed for any sort of linuxy or embedded hardware that requires a full moon and the right software version every step of the way. Oh, and the Android installer isn't flawless either: it does require some setting up of cumbersome paths, but the installer of individual SDKs (which to be fair are seperate files/downloads) works like a charm...
- jammur 16y ago
  Guilty as charged on the first point :) The separate files/downloads was a minor annoyance, but fairly insignificant in the grand scheme of things. On the whole, I just found it to be an very frustrating experience.
DougBTX 16y ago
This is quite similar to my experience. I installed Adobe Builder 4.5 beta trial too, which after a bit of fiddling around (and confusion on my part about the differences between 4.0 and 4.5 while following the tutorials) does eventually get you a Build and Run button. Edit: This page looks new, at least it lists all the downloads in one place: http://us.blackberry.com/developers/tablet/adobe.jsp http://us.blackberry.com/developers/tablet/adobe.jsp
- jammur 16y ago
  I guess I should have mentioned I was trying to use the WebWorks SDK, not the AIR SDK. I'll update the post accordingly. Thanks!
SriniK 16y ago
Totally agree with the author. I too quit porting one of my apps to BB. This is the reason why shortcuts (not making well integrated system) always fail.
- ardell 16y ago
  We've been frustrated to the point of abandonment on trying to install a Blackberry simulator to test out jquery-mobile apps. Similar story to tell--just kept hitting wall after wall of poorly thought-out and poorly documented steps. It's a shame because most of our customers use Blackberries but it's just not practical for us to support Blackberry on our mobile apps.
b-dawg 16y ago
You so famous.
circuitbreaker 16y ago
Thank you for showing me that I wasn't the only one that had the same HORRIBLE experience! I gave a valiant effort for a good 3 solid days, at which point, I was much MUCH further along with the same tasks on iOS. For shame, RIM.
tajddin 16y ago
I actually have an approved app for the PlayBook and actually found the entire process quite straight forward, especially considering that both the sdk and simulator are both in beta.
- leanderleeco 16y ago
  Same here. I didn't find it a problem at all. It required a bit of piecing together, but it was definitely not difficult.
btipling 16y ago
The complaints are: $200 price to develop with 10 app limit. Multiple registration forms. Requiring multiple downloads. Requiring to purchase vmware fusion. Installer that just copies an iso. Having to password protect the simulator. Bad documentation on how to load an app on the simulator. The comparative ease with which you can do these things with android and ios.
- jammur 16y ago
  Now I feel like an idiot for spending an hour and half writing it, lol.
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
  - acangiano 16y ago
    Articles can often be summarized in a few lines which make them seem trivial. What really counts for me is why those points mentioned above are worth complaining about.
  - foresterh 16y ago
    The summarized points are good, but the article is great. I might read those points and think "hmm... not too bad", but read the article and think "hmm.. wtf!"
  - pkulak 16y ago
    Yours was a lot more funny than the bullet points.
  - kgutteridge 16y ago
    You did well to pull out early if you found this part of the process painful, unfortunately end to end it feels like death by a thousand paper cuts. Theres nothing glaring wrong through out but lots of annoyances which really add up, when compared to iOS or Android development We recently developed this so speaking from some experience http://appworld.blackberry.com/webstore/content/28561 http://appworld.blackberry.com/webstore/content/28561 The bb version took far far longer than the equivalent iOS, simply because of other nonsense such as the pain in the signing process (isthesigningserverdown.com the fact it exists tells you all you need to know). Random exceptions being thrown that have no useful meaning and of course the joy of RAPC throwing errors such as "CreateProcess error=87, Parameter is incorrect" which we eventually found was due to the classpath being too long for RAPC to handle However once complete the application it is something we are very proud of!
alanh 16y ago
Don’t forget Kik (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1935093 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1935093) and the arbitrary way RIM may decide to not only take your app down, but sue you (http://www.kik.com/blog/2010/12/a-sad-day-in-waterloo/ http://www.kik.com/blog/2010/12/a-sad-day-in-waterloo/), to boot.
- Pahalial 16y ago
  Everything I've read and heard indicates it's really not that cut-and-dried, what with the founder of Kik having been an intern at RIM and then basically re-implementing BBM.
mb1 16y ago
The post is factually inaccurate. - $200 per registration fee is waived for now. In fact its been waived for over a year now. - 10 app limit is not enforced either.
- alanh 16y ago
  The post mentions that the fee is currently waived. And it’s not like the author made up the 10-app limit, just because he wasn’t aware it’s currently not enforced.
- amackera 16y ago
  The post doesn't claim that the fee isn't waived, or that the limit is enforced, it just claims that there is a fee, and there is a limit. Whether they are enforced in the future is of course still possible.
kin 16y ago
Yeah, the $200 was a major blocker for me. As a student, I just want to make silly free game apps. $200 for $0 income? Well that's certainly not appealing. On the other side, don't they not take any cut of your income from their app store?
- mortenjorck 16y ago
  Can anyone verify that, that RIM doesn't take a cut of sales?
  - gcheong 16y ago
    From the blackberry app world vendor agreement: "5.1 Application Revenue Fee Vendor shall pay to RIM thirty percent (30%) of Application Revenue..."
- jonknee 16y ago
  It's currently waived, so don't let it block you...
shimi 16y ago
I was participating in a developers survey by Rim around a year ago (one of those where they grab 10 engineers and put them in a room for some cash) and the complaints were exactly the same!
ianbishop 16y ago
One thing I am surprised to not see in this list is that, as an individual, you are required to have your form faxed back after been signed by a notary. AFAIK, this is not practice of Google or Apple either.
- jarin 16y ago
  If you're a business, you do have to fax in your business documents before your app will go live in the App Store (and it takes a couple of weeks to process), but it's most likely going to take you at least a couple of weeks to develop your app and get it approved so it's not so bad. And you don't need to get it notarized.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
leon_ 16y ago
Hmm, I expected something ... well ... something really bad. But it looks like the guy has just a very thin skin. I'm an iPhone developer who signed up with the program as soon as it became available and I can tell you: Becoming an iPhone developer was a major PITA. It started with the registration (Apple let you wait for weeks after you purchased the membership), then with taxes formalities (as a non us-citizen I had to call the I.R.S. and get a w8-ben number ... mix a polish name with a german address and an overseas phone call and you get a really fun time). Oh, and I had to print out all my contracts, sign them and send them via snail mail to some Apple subsidiary in Texas. And then the fun just started - I spent days getting all the provisioning profile stuff working (only to get my app to run on my device). Uploading the finished app to the store was another story (there was no build & archive & submit 3 click way - you had to build the distribution package yourself). Considering RIM has just started their developer program for their playbook I'd say that the blog post is exaggerated. The only thing that I think he's right on is the 10 app/$200 limit ...
- mikereed 16y ago
  C'mon. Did it really take you _days_ to get the provisioning profile stuff working?
  - jarin 16y ago
    Yeah, I mean the process is a little complicated, but it works perfectly if you just follow the instructions step by step (and you don't need to do any of that to run your app in the simulator). I think it took me about an hour the first time, and it takes maybe 10 minutes to generate the certificates and profile after you do it a few times.
    - leon_ 16y ago
      > instructions yeah, if those were available/not just plain wrong when the program started.
      - jarin 16y ago
mishmash 16y ago
> You wanted me to print off a notarized statement of identification form....it goes without saying at this point, but neither Apple nor Google require you to do anything even close to that. Actually, just a few months ago when renewing an Apple Developer Connection membership, they asked me to do the exact same thing. To their credit, I emailed, summarized my history with ADC, bitched a little bit, and someone took care of it the next day. edit: typo
spacemanaki 16y ago
If you think that's bad, try writing an app for a BlackBerry phone. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1959433 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1959433
- tmountain 16y ago
  Indeed, writing Blackberry mobile software is an exercise in futility. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1463000 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1463000
  - spacemanaki 16y ago
    I feel your pain... I wish I'd read that comment about six months ago when I started in a similar situation you were in.
veeti 16y ago
"Knowing what a pleasure it is to use Apple and Google’s tools," I haven't used the iOS SDK, but the Android SDK is far from "a pleasure to use". The 3.0 emulator is so unusably slow that it makes it practically impossible for me to adapt my app to the new tablet UI without going insane in the process.
- pkulak 16y ago
  Well, apart from the Honeycomb issues, it is a pleasure to use. If you don't have your phone plugged in and hit Run or Debug, it installs it to the emulator and runs it. If you do have your phone plugged in, it goes there. It's one button for either phone or emulator. As a side note, I assume it will be this easy with 3.0 as well, so the slow emulator may not be a problem if you have a tablet plugged in. Even with the current emulator, I prefer to just use my phone; it's faster and gives me a better idea of how it really looks and runs.
- ascendant 16y ago
  I haven't done Android dev lately but I wrote a few apps in the 1.5/1.6 days and it was really nice once you got used to the tools.
  - jarek 16y ago
    I'm not sure that's a useful metric. Before you got used to the tools, could have you written a rant like the one in the article?
    - ascendant 16y ago
      No, because the Android tools were exceptionally easy to install and use. The point of this rant is that RIM's tools are the opposite. Anyone can get used to the tools they're given to accomplish a task, the point here is how easy is it to accomplish said getting-used-to.
- celticjames 16y ago
  The Android emulator is a full ARM processor emulator. Very slow and probably always will be. My experience is that Android development is mostly impossible without the real hardware. This Android x86 port looks promising though: http://www.android-x86.org/documents/virtualboxhowto http://www.android-x86.org/documents/virtualboxhowto
fleitz 16y ago
The fundamental problem is that their devices works the same way as their developer model. It's unintuitive, clunky and overpriced. The only thing RIM has left is BBM. It's not worth developing for. I got the legal bullshit from Apple too. Seriously, it had to be notarized, I had to send Apple docs that had some kind of embossed type seal (I'm surprised they didn't require it in wax) like I was delivering a proclaimation from the King in the 12th century.
- jammur 16y ago
  Were you registering as a business? I saw other commenters mention that they had to jump through additional hoops when registering as a business, but I had no trouble at all as an individual. Just put in my name, address, etc., pop in my credit card number, and I was good to go.
vnchr 16y ago
RIM: The next Nokia
- shimi 16y ago
  Nokia actually are trying to sort their business
westajay 16y ago
I went through the same process, but didn't think it was that bad. RIMs web signup download process needs to be cleaned up, and the Mac installer thing was a bit weird, but I thought the docs were straightforward, and only took me a couple mins to get the sample app deployed. My gosh.. A command line program to remote install to the vm image! At least there is a full intel compiled image, and not some buggy emulator. You can also build decent apps using HTML and JavaScript, much like webos. Is it just me, or has the HN crowd deteriorated to "enterprise-ey bad, apple good" There is a lot of opportunity in this platform, but not for consumer apps. They will be very prevalent in business environments, and the os is damn responsive.
- zabraxias 16y ago
  It's a shame the term "enterprise" is used as an excuse for poor quality. This isn't an attack on you I see it where I work too. Companies like Apple, Blizzard, and surely others have shown being big doesn't have to impede quality and user experience.
DrewHintz 16y ago
The simulator in the BB SDK reloads the BB OS every time you run an app. This lead to a 60+ second delay every time I updated the app and wanted to run or debug it. I gave up and thankfully someone else wrote the app: http://code.google.com/p/google-authenticator/source/browse/#hg%2Fmobile%2Fblackberry http://code.google.com/p/google-authenticator/source/browse/... Disclaimer: I work for a possible competitor.
apinstein 16y ago
As developers, we don't want all of these platforms. RIM is very developer-unfriendly, and frankly so is Adobe, so I propose that we all do the sane thing here; ignore RIM to hasten its death. Or at least make them switch to Android.
foobarbazetc 16y ago
RIM is a very developer hostile company, and they definitely don't care. Most of the listed issues still exist for "legacy" BlackBerry development, plus about 100 other things that we could go into (e.g., still no way to do HTTP without having to worry about 6000 different connectivity methods and managing them all is up to each and every app).
hrabago 16y ago
The way I understand it, the $200 price is for 10 submissions, not 10 applications. So if your app has a bug, and you submit a version of the same app which fixed the bug, and/or added features, that counts against the limit. Think of it as a $20 fee for app review, bought in blocks of 10.
- uptown 16y ago
  So they're essentially discouraging improvements to the apps in their ecosystem because it costs the developer money to push out upgrades/patches/fixes? Genius.
tjarratt 16y ago
All of this rings true, with the exception of having some forms notarized. My name on my forms did not match the name on my credit card when I paid for my Apple Developer account. A short time later Apple deactivated my account and left it in that state until I could provide them with notarized proof of my identity. That is not terribly unusual, as far as I am concerned.
MattRix 16y ago
Ok, as an iPhone + iPad app developer (I created Trainyard), and as a Flash developer who has created a PlayBook app, and as a fellow Canadian, I feel I should weigh in on this. Despite the whiny tone and bizarre "Bueller?" moments, there were a bunch of valid points made. Yes, the amount of forms you have to fill out is ridiculous. Yes, the fact that the simulator .iso has an installer is crazy. With those things, I absolutely agree with you. They're just silly... but they're also not a big deal in the grand scheme of things. It took me less than 2 hours from when I decided I wanted to make a Playbook app to when I had something running in the simulator. You're correct that the iOS SDK is easier to get started with, and it's only a single download... but it's also 3.5 gigs, every single time. I'll take three 100mb downloads over a 3.5 gig download any day. Ok, as for the cost of things... You only need to pay for VMWare if you're on a Mac, on a PC it's free. I've talked to some guys at RIM about this, and they said they were trying to work out a deal with VMWare to make it free for Mac users as well. There's no more $200 fee. I don't know why anyone still brings it up. The 10 app limit is a GOOD THING, and keep in mind that you're also getting a 100% free Playbook if you make an app right now, surely that's gotta be worth something. As for the notary thing, I'm guessing that's because of the free Playbook offer. They don't want to give away 10 Playbooks to the same guy. If you're a company, Apple's process is even more painful. You actually have to snail-mail all your forms in and wait until they get them before you can publish anything. All the other complaints were just petty. Who cares about the IP address and the password? That stuff takes 2 minutes to figure out. There are a lots of positives about developing for Playbook that you didn't mention. For example, an interesting (and not well-known fact) is that application updates do not require approval on App World. That's a huge plus over iOS in my book. Anyway, that's my thoughts on it. TLDR: You definitely had some good points, but the rest of it got blown WAY out of proportion.
- cgislason 16y ago
  I think it all comes down to lack of polish. Even in the early days, the iPhone SDK was leagues above the Playbook SDK in terms of polish. My personal anecdote is that the tools only run on 64 bit Macs but I could find no mention of that in the documentation. It was not a big deal, but these things add up. The free Playbook offer will probably help more than a few developers look past these flaws and try it out.
konop 16y ago
The one thing wrong about this critique is that it is a GOOD thing there is a charge for more apps on the app store. It stops the spamming that is prevalent on apple's platform. It should be free for the first 5 and then a charge after that.
aphexairlines 16y ago
Very whiny. What kind of software developer needs everything spoon-fed to them? "unix loving neck beards"? Oh, ok, I understand now.
idonthack 16y ago
shut up about Bueller
donniefitz2 16y ago
I hope this letter causes RIM to WAKE UP! You are not the dominant force any more. Get with it.
stevefarnworth 16y ago
I was put off by having to get my forms notarized, not because it's particularly difficult, but it seems to be a completely unnecessary hurdle. After being dispirited by RIMs process, I immediately went and registered as an Android developer - simple and done within 20 minutes. I can't comment on the BlackBerry tools (nor the iOS ones, as I don't own a Mac), but although Eclipse+ADT isn't the most elegant solution, it does seem to work fairly well, and didn't take too long to set up. Obviously a free PlayBook would have been nice, and I would like to have gotten in at the ground-floor of a new platform, but RIM does have to take steps to ensure it's easier for developers to do what they do best - develop, not fight fires in the registration or set-up processes.
danielodio 16y ago
Maybe it's moot - Android apps on Blackberrys soon, it seems. Here's a commemorative new logo for RIM: http://go.danielodio.com/blackberry http://go.danielodio.com/blackberry DROdio

320 points by jammur 16y ago

Ah, you definately have never developed for any sort of linuxy or embedded hardware that requires a full moon and the right software version every step of the way. Oh, and the Android installer isn't flawless either: it does require some setting up of cumbersome paths, but the installer of individual SDKs (which to be fair are seperate files/downloads) works like a charm...

jammur 16y ago
Guilty as charged on the first point :) The separate files/downloads was a minor annoyance, but fairly insignificant in the grand scheme of things. On the whole, I just found it to be an very frustrating experience.

DougBTX 16y ago

This is quite similar to my experience. I installed Adobe Builder 4.5 beta trial too, which after a bit of fiddling around (and confusion on my part about the differences between 4.0 and 4.5 while following the tutorials) does eventually get you a Build and Run button. Edit: This page looks new, at least it lists all the downloads in one place: http://us.blackberry.com/developers/tablet/adobe.jsp http://us.blackberry.com/developers/tablet/adobe.jsp

jammur 16y ago
I guess I should have mentioned I was trying to use the WebWorks SDK, not the AIR SDK. I'll update the post accordingly. Thanks!

SriniK 16y ago

Totally agree with the author. I too quit porting one of my apps to BB. This is the reason why shortcuts (not making well integrated system) always fail.

ardell 16y ago
We've been frustrated to the point of abandonment on trying to install a Blackberry simulator to test out jquery-mobile apps. Similar story to tell--just kept hitting wall after wall of poorly thought-out and poorly documented steps. It's a shame because most of our customers use Blackberries but it's just not practical for us to support Blackberry on our mobile apps.

b-dawg 16y ago

You so famous.

circuitbreaker 16y ago

Thank you for showing me that I wasn't the only one that had the same HORRIBLE experience! I gave a valiant effort for a good 3 solid days, at which point, I was much MUCH further along with the same tasks on iOS. For shame, RIM.

tajddin 16y ago

I actually have an approved app for the PlayBook and actually found the entire process quite straight forward, especially considering that both the sdk and simulator are both in beta.

leanderleeco 16y ago
Same here. I didn't find it a problem at all. It required a bit of piecing together, but it was definitely not difficult.

btipling 16y ago

The complaints are: $200 price to develop with 10 app limit. Multiple registration forms. Requiring multiple downloads. Requiring to purchase vmware fusion. Installer that just copies an iso. Having to password protect the simulator. Bad documentation on how to load an app on the simulator. The comparative ease with which you can do these things with android and ios.

jammur 16y ago
Now I feel like an idiot for spending an hour and half writing it, lol.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- acangiano 16y ago
  Articles can often be summarized in a few lines which make them seem trivial. What really counts for me is why those points mentioned above are worth complaining about.
- foresterh 16y ago
  The summarized points are good, but the article is great. I might read those points and think "hmm... not too bad", but read the article and think "hmm.. wtf!"
- pkulak 16y ago
  Yours was a lot more funny than the bullet points.
- kgutteridge 16y ago
  You did well to pull out early if you found this part of the process painful, unfortunately end to end it feels like death by a thousand paper cuts. Theres nothing glaring wrong through out but lots of annoyances which really add up, when compared to iOS or Android development We recently developed this so speaking from some experience http://appworld.blackberry.com/webstore/content/28561 http://appworld.blackberry.com/webstore/content/28561 The bb version took far far longer than the equivalent iOS, simply because of other nonsense such as the pain in the signing process (isthesigningserverdown.com the fact it exists tells you all you need to know). Random exceptions being thrown that have no useful meaning and of course the joy of RAPC throwing errors such as "CreateProcess error=87, Parameter is incorrect" which we eventually found was due to the classpath being too long for RAPC to handle However once complete the application it is something we are very proud of!

alanh 16y ago

Don’t forget Kik (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1935093 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1935093) and the arbitrary way RIM may decide to not only take your app down, but sue you (http://www.kik.com/blog/2010/12/a-sad-day-in-waterloo/ http://www.kik.com/blog/2010/12/a-sad-day-in-waterloo/), to boot.

Pahalial 16y ago
Everything I've read and heard indicates it's really not that cut-and-dried, what with the founder of Kik having been an intern at RIM and then basically re-implementing BBM.

mb1 16y ago

The post is factually inaccurate. - $200 per registration fee is waived for now. In fact its been waived for over a year now. - 10 app limit is not enforced either.

alanh 16y ago
The post mentions that the fee is currently waived. And it’s not like the author made up the 10-app limit, just because he wasn’t aware it’s currently not enforced.
amackera 16y ago
The post doesn't claim that the fee isn't waived, or that the limit is enforced, it just claims that there is a fee, and there is a limit. Whether they are enforced in the future is of course still possible.

kin 16y ago

Yeah, the $200 was a major blocker for me. As a student, I just want to make silly free game apps. $200 for $0 income? Well that's certainly not appealing. On the other side, don't they not take any cut of your income from their app store?

mortenjorck 16y ago
Can anyone verify that, that RIM doesn't take a cut of sales?
- gcheong 16y ago
  From the blackberry app world vendor agreement: "5.1 Application Revenue Fee Vendor shall pay to RIM thirty percent (30%) of Application Revenue..."
jonknee 16y ago
It's currently waived, so don't let it block you...

shimi 16y ago

I was participating in a developers survey by Rim around a year ago (one of those where they grab 10 engineers and put them in a room for some cash) and the complaints were exactly the same!

ianbishop 16y ago

One thing I am surprised to not see in this list is that, as an individual, you are required to have your form faxed back after been signed by a notary. AFAIK, this is not practice of Google or Apple either.

jarin 16y ago
If you're a business, you do have to fax in your business documents before your app will go live in the App Store (and it takes a couple of weeks to process), but it's most likely going to take you at least a couple of weeks to develop your app and get it approved so it's not so bad. And you don't need to get it notarized.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]

leon_ 16y ago

Hmm, I expected something ... well ... something really bad. But it looks like the guy has just a very thin skin. I'm an iPhone developer who signed up with the program as soon as it became available and I can tell you: Becoming an iPhone developer was a major PITA. It started with the registration (Apple let you wait for weeks after you purchased the membership), then with taxes formalities (as a non us-citizen I had to call the I.R.S. and get a w8-ben number ... mix a polish name with a german address and an overseas phone call and you get a really fun time). Oh, and I had to print out all my contracts, sign them and send them via snail mail to some Apple subsidiary in Texas. And then the fun just started - I spent days getting all the provisioning profile stuff working (only to get my app to run on my device). Uploading the finished app to the store was another story (there was no build & archive & submit 3 click way - you had to build the distribution package yourself). Considering RIM has just started their developer program for their playbook I'd say that the blog post is exaggerated. The only thing that I think he's right on is the 10 app/$200 limit ...

mikereed 16y ago
C'mon. Did it really take you _days_ to get the provisioning profile stuff working?
- jarin 16y ago
  Yeah, I mean the process is a little complicated, but it works perfectly if you just follow the instructions step by step (and you don't need to do any of that to run your app in the simulator). I think it took me about an hour the first time, and it takes maybe 10 minutes to generate the certificates and profile after you do it a few times.
  - leon_ 16y ago
    > instructions yeah, if those were available/not just plain wrong when the program started.
    - jarin 16y ago

mishmash 16y ago

> You wanted me to print off a notarized statement of identification form....it goes without saying at this point, but neither Apple nor Google require you to do anything even close to that. Actually, just a few months ago when renewing an Apple Developer Connection membership, they asked me to do the exact same thing. To their credit, I emailed, summarized my history with ADC, bitched a little bit, and someone took care of it the next day. edit: typo

spacemanaki 16y ago

If you think that's bad, try writing an app for a BlackBerry phone. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1959433 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1959433

tmountain 16y ago
Indeed, writing Blackberry mobile software is an exercise in futility. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1463000 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1463000
- spacemanaki 16y ago
  I feel your pain... I wish I'd read that comment about six months ago when I started in a similar situation you were in.

veeti 16y ago

"Knowing what a pleasure it is to use Apple and Google’s tools," I haven't used the iOS SDK, but the Android SDK is far from "a pleasure to use". The 3.0 emulator is so unusably slow that it makes it practically impossible for me to adapt my app to the new tablet UI without going insane in the process.

pkulak 16y ago
Well, apart from the Honeycomb issues, it is a pleasure to use. If you don't have your phone plugged in and hit Run or Debug, it installs it to the emulator and runs it. If you do have your phone plugged in, it goes there. It's one button for either phone or emulator. As a side note, I assume it will be this easy with 3.0 as well, so the slow emulator may not be a problem if you have a tablet plugged in. Even with the current emulator, I prefer to just use my phone; it's faster and gives me a better idea of how it really looks and runs.
ascendant 16y ago
I haven't done Android dev lately but I wrote a few apps in the 1.5/1.6 days and it was really nice once you got used to the tools.
- jarek 16y ago
  I'm not sure that's a useful metric. Before you got used to the tools, could have you written a rant like the one in the article?
  - ascendant 16y ago
    No, because the Android tools were exceptionally easy to install and use. The point of this rant is that RIM's tools are the opposite. Anyone can get used to the tools they're given to accomplish a task, the point here is how easy is it to accomplish said getting-used-to.
celticjames 16y ago
The Android emulator is a full ARM processor emulator. Very slow and probably always will be. My experience is that Android development is mostly impossible without the real hardware. This Android x86 port looks promising though: http://www.android-x86.org/documents/virtualboxhowto http://www.android-x86.org/documents/virtualboxhowto

fleitz 16y ago

The fundamental problem is that their devices works the same way as their developer model. It's unintuitive, clunky and overpriced. The only thing RIM has left is BBM. It's not worth developing for. I got the legal bullshit from Apple too. Seriously, it had to be notarized, I had to send Apple docs that had some kind of embossed type seal (I'm surprised they didn't require it in wax) like I was delivering a proclaimation from the King in the 12th century.

jammur 16y ago
Were you registering as a business? I saw other commenters mention that they had to jump through additional hoops when registering as a business, but I had no trouble at all as an individual. Just put in my name, address, etc., pop in my credit card number, and I was good to go.

vnchr 16y ago

RIM: The next Nokia

shimi 16y ago
Nokia actually are trying to sort their business

westajay 16y ago

I went through the same process, but didn't think it was that bad. RIMs web signup download process needs to be cleaned up, and the Mac installer thing was a bit weird, but I thought the docs were straightforward, and only took me a couple mins to get the sample app deployed. My gosh.. A command line program to remote install to the vm image! At least there is a full intel compiled image, and not some buggy emulator. You can also build decent apps using HTML and JavaScript, much like webos. Is it just me, or has the HN crowd deteriorated to "enterprise-ey bad, apple good" There is a lot of opportunity in this platform, but not for consumer apps. They will be very prevalent in business environments, and the os is damn responsive.

zabraxias 16y ago
It's a shame the term "enterprise" is used as an excuse for poor quality. This isn't an attack on you I see it where I work too. Companies like Apple, Blizzard, and surely others have shown being big doesn't have to impede quality and user experience.

DrewHintz 16y ago

The simulator in the BB SDK reloads the BB OS every time you run an app. This lead to a 60+ second delay every time I updated the app and wanted to run or debug it. I gave up and thankfully someone else wrote the app: http://code.google.com/p/google-authenticator/source/browse/#hg%2Fmobile%2Fblackberry http://code.google.com/p/google-authenticator/source/browse/... Disclaimer: I work for a possible competitor.

apinstein 16y ago

As developers, we don't want all of these platforms. RIM is very developer-unfriendly, and frankly so is Adobe, so I propose that we all do the sane thing here; ignore RIM to hasten its death. Or at least make them switch to Android.

foobarbazetc 16y ago

RIM is a very developer hostile company, and they definitely don't care. Most of the listed issues still exist for "legacy" BlackBerry development, plus about 100 other things that we could go into (e.g., still no way to do HTTP without having to worry about 6000 different connectivity methods and managing them all is up to each and every app).

hrabago 16y ago

The way I understand it, the $200 price is for 10 submissions, not 10 applications. So if your app has a bug, and you submit a version of the same app which fixed the bug, and/or added features, that counts against the limit. Think of it as a $20 fee for app review, bought in blocks of 10.

uptown 16y ago
So they're essentially discouraging improvements to the apps in their ecosystem because it costs the developer money to push out upgrades/patches/fixes? Genius.

tjarratt 16y ago

All of this rings true, with the exception of having some forms notarized. My name on my forms did not match the name on my credit card when I paid for my Apple Developer account. A short time later Apple deactivated my account and left it in that state until I could provide them with notarized proof of my identity. That is not terribly unusual, as far as I am concerned.

MattRix 16y ago

Ok, as an iPhone + iPad app developer (I created Trainyard), and as a Flash developer who has created a PlayBook app, and as a fellow Canadian, I feel I should weigh in on this. Despite the whiny tone and bizarre "Bueller?" moments, there were a bunch of valid points made. Yes, the amount of forms you have to fill out is ridiculous. Yes, the fact that the simulator .iso has an installer is crazy. With those things, I absolutely agree with you. They're just silly... but they're also not a big deal in the grand scheme of things. It took me less than 2 hours from when I decided I wanted to make a Playbook app to when I had something running in the simulator. You're correct that the iOS SDK is easier to get started with, and it's only a single download... but it's also 3.5 gigs, every single time. I'll take three 100mb downloads over a 3.5 gig download any day. Ok, as for the cost of things... You only need to pay for VMWare if you're on a Mac, on a PC it's free. I've talked to some guys at RIM about this, and they said they were trying to work out a deal with VMWare to make it free for Mac users as well. There's no more $200 fee. I don't know why anyone still brings it up. The 10 app limit is a GOOD THING, and keep in mind that you're also getting a 100% free Playbook if you make an app right now, surely that's gotta be worth something. As for the notary thing, I'm guessing that's because of the free Playbook offer. They don't want to give away 10 Playbooks to the same guy. If you're a company, Apple's process is even more painful. You actually have to snail-mail all your forms in and wait until they get them before you can publish anything. All the other complaints were just petty. Who cares about the IP address and the password? That stuff takes 2 minutes to figure out. There are a lots of positives about developing for Playbook that you didn't mention. For example, an interesting (and not well-known fact) is that application updates do not require approval on App World. That's a huge plus over iOS in my book. Anyway, that's my thoughts on it. TLDR: You definitely had some good points, but the rest of it got blown WAY out of proportion.

cgislason 16y ago
I think it all comes down to lack of polish. Even in the early days, the iPhone SDK was leagues above the Playbook SDK in terms of polish. My personal anecdote is that the tools only run on 64 bit Macs but I could find no mention of that in the documentation. It was not a big deal, but these things add up. The free Playbook offer will probably help more than a few developers look past these flaws and try it out.

konop 16y ago

The one thing wrong about this critique is that it is a GOOD thing there is a charge for more apps on the app store. It stops the spamming that is prevalent on apple's platform. It should be free for the first 5 and then a charge after that.

aphexairlines 16y ago

Very whiny. What kind of software developer needs everything spoon-fed to them? "unix loving neck beards"? Oh, ok, I understand now.

idonthack 16y ago

shut up about Bueller

donniefitz2 16y ago

I hope this letter causes RIM to WAKE UP! You are not the dominant force any more. Get with it.

stevefarnworth 16y ago

I was put off by having to get my forms notarized, not because it's particularly difficult, but it seems to be a completely unnecessary hurdle. After being dispirited by RIMs process, I immediately went and registered as an Android developer - simple and done within 20 minutes. I can't comment on the BlackBerry tools (nor the iOS ones, as I don't own a Mac), but although Eclipse+ADT isn't the most elegant solution, it does seem to work fairly well, and didn't take too long to set up. Obviously a free PlayBook would have been nice, and I would like to have gotten in at the ground-floor of a new platform, but RIM does have to take steps to ensure it's easier for developers to do what they do best - develop, not fight fires in the registration or set-up processes.

danielodio 16y ago

Maybe it's moot - Android apps on Blackberrys soon, it seems. Here's a commemorative new logo for RIM: http://go.danielodio.com/blackberry http://go.danielodio.com/blackberry DROdio