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I focused on building stuff, and I've never stopped. I've worked weekends and evenings doing that throughout my career. I dropped out of college because I wasn'

by eloff 7y ago

I focused on building stuff, and I've never stopped. I've worked weekends and evenings doing that throughout my career. I dropped out of college because I wasn't gaining anything from the degree, it would have just been a credential for me. It made it harder to get that first job, but since then it hasn't held me back. I have gone further in my career than the very best students in my classes who stayed and finished their degree with honors, and in some cases continued on to their masters in computer science. Now at 35 nobody even asks about the degree anymore. So a degree is not worth that much in this industry compared to practical skills. However, I think many people might struggle to learn on their own and might lack the self-discipline or initiative to guide their own learning - in which case get that degree! But keep in mind those same skills are required on an ongoing basis to keep up with this fast moving industry, and you won't get as far without them. I was home-schooled so for me it's just business as usual - that's actually been the biggest thing I got out of my schooling.

hota_mazi 7y ago
> Now at 35 nobody even asks about the degree anymore. So a degree is not worth that much in this industry compared to practical skills. At 35, maybe. Before that, a degree is worth a lot.
- eloff 7y ago
  It mattered a lot to my first job, after that almost not at all. I didn't get callbacks from some very conservative companies, and that may be the reason - but those weren't great places to work anyway - so I can't say that it hurt me at all. Sample size of 1 mind you.
  - Groxx 7y ago
    Very much the same here. First job is harder, but demonstrate ability and no recruiter has ever asked since. School is essentially trash for demonstrating "can program in a business environment". If you're aiming for a research-heavy position it may help, but that's an extreme minority of jobs. And after a couple years it's useless again anyway - you're either continuing your self-education and improving, or you're stagnant, and your prior education doesn't play all that much of a role.
  - tristor 7y ago
    Same here, I did some contracting to start my career as it was less credential-dependent than FTE. After showing what I could do for a few years, nobody has ever concerned themselves with my lack of degree since. I've literally spent my whole life studying computers (my dad is a geek so I started at 4 years old), so college was meaningless. Most of my classes I either already knew the subject matter beforehand or knew more about the subject matter than the instructor, so I dropped out. Most of the information is available for free online or in a library if you're self-motivated enough to learn. There are some people who definitely benefit from structured learning environments, so I don't ever try to dissuade people from going to college. Rather, I try to get everyone to just start building stuff and releasing it open source and contributing to open source as soon as they can. If you can learn how to search effectively, read documentation effectively, and program proficiently in at least one language you don't really need college.
- elliotbnvl 7y ago
  I'm 23 and have been a web developer for six years. I've never been asked for my degree. I stopped college to go work for a startup after a year of English.
  - tzjmetron 7y ago
    Exception, not the rule.
- waveyshinobi 7y ago
  I'm 27 and nobody has asked except for FANG companies (and still got offers from them despite being a college dropout).
- Impossible 7y ago
  My lack of degree was a small barrier to getting some early jobs, part of that was transitioning industries to an industry that can be difficult for junior people to break into (pre-iPhone mobile to games). After my 2nd game industry job at 25 no one cared about my degree. If your goal is to get a job at FAANG or another big company early in your career you absolutely need a degree. For other jobs it will make things harder but it's not really a requirement. If you still want to work at FAANG 2 or 3 years of industry experience is worth more than a degree.
- Mandatum 7y ago
  27. Asked about my degree going for a junior role when I first started, never again since. And I've worked at every place you'd expect it to be required - Big 4, traditional insurance, traditional finance.. May help with the initial job, but to be honest - you don't really want to work for a place that gives a shit about your degree. Just your capabilities or potential. However not everyone has that luxury, especially outside of tech-hubs. And even more so outside of NA.
- jimbob45 7y ago
  Don't dance around the greater question - was the degree worth a lot or was the knowledge gained from the degree worth a lot?
jermaustin1 7y ago
I've been told by two separate hiring managers at bigger "non-tech" companies that they need a degree to satisfy some outdated HR department requirement, and to just put something down in education, and they would pass it through without checking. They wanted me, but I wouldn't have made it through HR without a made up university degree.
dktp 7y ago
26, but a similar story here. Not having a degree hasn't held me back in job opportunities. Where it has held me back is getting a permanent residency in Canada. I spent the last 2 years working as a backend developer in Canada just to see I'm not eligible for express entry PR due to lack of education.
- Mandatum 7y ago
  Blue Cards in EU don't give a fuck about your degree! However you'll need 3 more years experience in your role, or have your past employers fudge what your role was to get it in EU! All countries are moving that way in highly specialised or high demand jobs, except medicine. Even the US has dropped that requirement for sponsored jobs in recent years.
cltsang 7y ago
Depends a lot on the business. If the company is hiring a junior to build a CRUD app, or even Uber for XXX, a degree wouldn't affect much. If the company is a business intelligence solution house, a degree may be just an entry ticket.
Impossible 7y ago
I have a very similar career story. In fact recently I've come to the realization that I never much cared for software engineering as a career, and would rather just build stuff. I'm prouder of all of my side projects than any work I've done at a job.
- bluemooner 7y ago
  It's great that you've managed to reach this conclusion! Yet I assume you still need to earn a living. Have you considered finding a job where you would do something more similar to what you enjoy doing?
  - Impossible 7y ago
    Yes I have been doing things similar to what I enjoy doing for my most of my career. I'd be doing more interesting or riskier things if I had financial independence (or investment with favorable terms) but I think that's true of a lot of people
    - eloff 7y ago
      Yeah that's the dream for me as well. I want the freedom to choose what I build. I don't ever want to stop building. I don't much care for most of what I build to pay the bills.
psalminen 7y ago
It is definitely true that you can build a career without a college degree. However, I don't believe this is the main point for college. Personally, I went to college solely based on an interest in learning. I can't imagine learning astrophysics (my degree) to the same level of understanding without the community of peers and mentors colleges provide.
chrisjarvis 7y ago
i agree with all the intangible benefits and personally got very little out of college which is why I took a job without finishing. That being said early in your career a Computer Science degree is still very important. With 2 yoe ive been looking for a new job and 2 of the FAANG + Microsoft company recruiters immediately ended consideration with that as the stated reason why. Just some competing anecdotal evidence :)

by eloff 7y ago

hota_mazi 7y ago

> Now at 35 nobody even asks about the degree anymore. So a degree is not worth that much in this industry compared to practical skills. At 35, maybe. Before that, a degree is worth a lot.

eloff 7y ago
It mattered a lot to my first job, after that almost not at all. I didn't get callbacks from some very conservative companies, and that may be the reason - but those weren't great places to work anyway - so I can't say that it hurt me at all. Sample size of 1 mind you.
- Groxx 7y ago
  Very much the same here. First job is harder, but demonstrate ability and no recruiter has ever asked since. School is essentially trash for demonstrating "can program in a business environment". If you're aiming for a research-heavy position it may help, but that's an extreme minority of jobs. And after a couple years it's useless again anyway - you're either continuing your self-education and improving, or you're stagnant, and your prior education doesn't play all that much of a role.
- tristor 7y ago
  Same here, I did some contracting to start my career as it was less credential-dependent than FTE. After showing what I could do for a few years, nobody has ever concerned themselves with my lack of degree since. I've literally spent my whole life studying computers (my dad is a geek so I started at 4 years old), so college was meaningless. Most of my classes I either already knew the subject matter beforehand or knew more about the subject matter than the instructor, so I dropped out. Most of the information is available for free online or in a library if you're self-motivated enough to learn. There are some people who definitely benefit from structured learning environments, so I don't ever try to dissuade people from going to college. Rather, I try to get everyone to just start building stuff and releasing it open source and contributing to open source as soon as they can. If you can learn how to search effectively, read documentation effectively, and program proficiently in at least one language you don't really need college.
elliotbnvl 7y ago
I'm 23 and have been a web developer for six years. I've never been asked for my degree. I stopped college to go work for a startup after a year of English.
- tzjmetron 7y ago
  Exception, not the rule.
waveyshinobi 7y ago
I'm 27 and nobody has asked except for FANG companies (and still got offers from them despite being a college dropout).
Impossible 7y ago
My lack of degree was a small barrier to getting some early jobs, part of that was transitioning industries to an industry that can be difficult for junior people to break into (pre-iPhone mobile to games). After my 2nd game industry job at 25 no one cared about my degree. If your goal is to get a job at FAANG or another big company early in your career you absolutely need a degree. For other jobs it will make things harder but it's not really a requirement. If you still want to work at FAANG 2 or 3 years of industry experience is worth more than a degree.
Mandatum 7y ago
27. Asked about my degree going for a junior role when I first started, never again since. And I've worked at every place you'd expect it to be required - Big 4, traditional insurance, traditional finance.. May help with the initial job, but to be honest - you don't really want to work for a place that gives a shit about your degree. Just your capabilities or potential. However not everyone has that luxury, especially outside of tech-hubs. And even more so outside of NA.
jimbob45 7y ago
Don't dance around the greater question - was the degree worth a lot or was the knowledge gained from the degree worth a lot?

jermaustin1 7y ago

I've been told by two separate hiring managers at bigger "non-tech" companies that they need a degree to satisfy some outdated HR department requirement, and to just put something down in education, and they would pass it through without checking. They wanted me, but I wouldn't have made it through HR without a made up university degree.

dktp 7y ago

26, but a similar story here. Not having a degree hasn't held me back in job opportunities. Where it has held me back is getting a permanent residency in Canada. I spent the last 2 years working as a backend developer in Canada just to see I'm not eligible for express entry PR due to lack of education.

Mandatum 7y ago
Blue Cards in EU don't give a fuck about your degree! However you'll need 3 more years experience in your role, or have your past employers fudge what your role was to get it in EU! All countries are moving that way in highly specialised or high demand jobs, except medicine. Even the US has dropped that requirement for sponsored jobs in recent years.

cltsang 7y ago

Depends a lot on the business. If the company is hiring a junior to build a CRUD app, or even Uber for XXX, a degree wouldn't affect much. If the company is a business intelligence solution house, a degree may be just an entry ticket.

Impossible 7y ago

I have a very similar career story. In fact recently I've come to the realization that I never much cared for software engineering as a career, and would rather just build stuff. I'm prouder of all of my side projects than any work I've done at a job.

bluemooner 7y ago
It's great that you've managed to reach this conclusion! Yet I assume you still need to earn a living. Have you considered finding a job where you would do something more similar to what you enjoy doing?
- Impossible 7y ago
  Yes I have been doing things similar to what I enjoy doing for my most of my career. I'd be doing more interesting or riskier things if I had financial independence (or investment with favorable terms) but I think that's true of a lot of people
  - eloff 7y ago
    Yeah that's the dream for me as well. I want the freedom to choose what I build. I don't ever want to stop building. I don't much care for most of what I build to pay the bills.

psalminen 7y ago

It is definitely true that you can build a career without a college degree. However, I don't believe this is the main point for college. Personally, I went to college solely based on an interest in learning. I can't imagine learning astrophysics (my degree) to the same level of understanding without the community of peers and mentors colleges provide.

chrisjarvis 7y ago

i agree with all the intangible benefits and personally got very little out of college which is why I took a job without finishing. That being said early in your career a Computer Science degree is still very important. With 2 yoe ive been looking for a new job and 2 of the FAANG + Microsoft company recruiters immediately ended consideration with that as the stated reason why. Just some competing anecdotal evidence :)