5 ms·

Caffeine is unquestionably a drug. While you can even give caffeine freely to kids, use of mostly all other substances may even cause death penalty in some coun

Caffeine is unquestionably a drug. While you can even give caffeine freely to kids, use of mostly all other substances may even cause death penalty in some countries. Pure caffeine powder is actually very dangerous, even in small quantities like 1000 milligrams. "That chemical of course is caffeine, which is now the world’s most popular psychoactive drug, used daily by 80 percent of humanity. (It is the only such drug we routinely give to our children, in the form of soda.)"

LeoTinnitus 7y ago
However, it's not addictive like many other drugs. Sure you'll suffer withdrawal for a day or too with some bad migraines, but afterward you're off it. I just make sure if I'm gonna miss a day to pack some aspirin to combat the headache.
- dionidium 7y ago
  Modern addiction specialists don't fetishize physical addiction the way many lay people do. What really characterizes "addiction" is problematic usage, i.e. continued use in the face of adverse consequences. Most (all?) caffeine users do not suffer adverse behavioral or physical consequences. That's really the distinction that matters.
  - beckingz 7y ago
    Don't talk to me until I've had my morning coffee. \s Don't talk to me until I've eaten this mug.
  - s_y_n_t_a_x 7y ago
    Stimulants, including caffeine, cause irritability among other bad side-effects. The only reason it's not characterized by these "modern addiction specialists", whatever that is, is because of both $$$ and how socially acceptable it is. Since you can get your caffeine fix in anyway for really cheap (or not so cheap if you want) and you can drink it at work without any weird looks it doesn't destroy your social life. Just because it doesn't destroy your social life doesn't mean it's not addictive, but I guess that's just the layman in me.
    - dionidium 7y ago
      > The only reason it's not characterized by these "modern addiction specialists", whatever that is As a sort of meta point, every time I use the phrase "modern addiction specialist" in a thread somebody responds expressing skepticism that such a thing exists or that the definition of addiction I've provided reflects consensus opinion. This is...weird. The American Psychiatric Association leads their "What is Addiction?" page with the following text: "Addiction is a complex condition, a brain disease that is manifested by compulsive substance use despite harmful consequence." https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/addiction/what-is-addiction https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/addiction/what-...
  - LeoTinnitus 7y ago
    Yes and thats my rationale as well. People get so uptight about the phrase addiction that they assume it means it's bad. Addiction is only bad when it interferes with other parts of your life that it shouldn't. Also I've found most people rely on it for its performance enhancing aspect which I'd argue is why it can be addictive for most people. I for one am more prone to quit coffee in the summer than in the winter simply because of the temperature outside.
- s_y_n_t_a_x 7y ago
  What?!? It's one the most addictive drugs there is. Those migraines you mentioned are one of many terrible withdraw symptoms. It is the only drug I truly have been unable to quit. Despite weeks of being off of it, I always relapse after the cravings get too much. It was easier to quit cigs for me than it is to stop drinking coffee. If it's a stimulant it's going to be very hard to quit. The only reason it's not considered an addiction by experts is because you don't destroy your life when you run out, BECAUSE IT'S EVERYWHERE and super accepted (you can do it at work), also because I assume $$$. So it's sort of like mobile/social media addiction but worse because it's more acceptable and it has physical withdrawal/cravings. Now I'm going to go have a coffee because I have a headache and I'm irritated.
  - LeoTinnitus 7y ago
    Sugar is addictive too. Should we cut that entirely out of our diets too? The fact that it isn't bad for you doesn't make addiction a bad thing. It's when addiction consumes your life and you forgo the good things in life that it becomes bad.
    - s_y_n_t_a_x 7y ago
      Didn't say we should cut it out, just was replying to the GP that it's not easy to quit, it's very addictive. I didn't say it would consume your life and make you forgo the good things.
- codingslave 7y ago
  I've met very few people in my lifetime who went from heavy caffeine usage to non.
  - LeoTinnitus 7y ago
    People do it out of habit and because it tastes good. It becomes ritualistic in a way. I'm not sure how disiplined most people are, but I can just stop (and have several times). I choose not to because I enjoy it. If I'm super busy in the morning, I'll just go without. I don't treat it like a performance enhancing product that some may which I'd argue may be why it's harder for those types of people to quit. They rely on it to make up for other places in their life they are failing with.
atilaneves 7y ago
I got given it as a child in the form of coffee.
stronglikedan 7y ago
Is sugar a drug? If not, what would the differentiation be?
- s_y_n_t_a_x 7y ago
  Sugar is glucose plus whatever and is safe in moderation. Caffeine is a stimulant drug that you cannot give pregnant women more than a cup a day and it gives you physical withdrawals if you try to quit. edit: edited due to nitpicking.
  - jjulius 7y ago
    >Sugar is glucose plus whatever and is safe in moderation. Lots of things that are addictive or considered a drug can be safe in moderation. >Caffeine is a stimulant drug that you cannot give pregnant women at all and it gives you physical withdrawals if you try to quit. Well that's just not true and I'd caution you to not speak in absolutes. Pregnant women can have finite amounts of caffeine. We just had our first child and my wife's doctor cleared her to have a cup a day during her pregnancy. A cup a day is, as far as I can tell, commonly considered OK[0]. "Current guidelines from the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG) and other experts say that it's safe for pregnant women to consume up to 200 milligrams of caffeine a day, or around one daily 12-ounce cup of coffee."[1] [0]https://americanpregnancy.org/pregnancy-health/caffeine-intake-during-pregnancy/ https://americanpregnancy.org/pregnancy-health/caffeine-inta... [1]https://www.whattoexpect.com/pregnancy/eating-well/week-4/caffeine-during-pregnancy.aspx https://www.whattoexpect.com/pregnancy/eating-well/week-4/ca...
    - s_y_n_t_a_x 7y ago
      The conclusion for the first article you linked is: > Avoiding caffeine as much as possible is your safest course of action. If you must get your fix, it is best to discuss this with your healthcare provider to make the healthiest choice for you and your baby. If caffeine isn't so addictive then it should be no problem to give it up for pregnancy :) Caffeine crosses the placenta to your baby which cannot metabolize it. There are numerous studies of how caffeine causes birth defects. I'll change my absolute but it doesn't really deter from my point that caffeine can be harmful drug in some scenarios (pregnancy) even when drinking it moderately (2-3 cups a day).
hnarn 7y ago
> small quantities like 1000 milligrams. Or, as it's also known, "1 gram".
balfirevic 7y ago
If your point is that many people are hypocritically and uncritically vilifying many drugs just because they they are called drugs - that's very true. Otherwise, why does it matter if the category of "drugs" includes coffee?

LeoTinnitus 7y ago

However, it's not addictive like many other drugs. Sure you'll suffer withdrawal for a day or too with some bad migraines, but afterward you're off it. I just make sure if I'm gonna miss a day to pack some aspirin to combat the headache.

dionidium 7y ago
Modern addiction specialists don't fetishize physical addiction the way many lay people do. What really characterizes "addiction" is problematic usage, i.e. continued use in the face of adverse consequences. Most (all?) caffeine users do not suffer adverse behavioral or physical consequences. That's really the distinction that matters.
- beckingz 7y ago
  Don't talk to me until I've had my morning coffee. \s Don't talk to me until I've eaten this mug.
- s_y_n_t_a_x 7y ago
  Stimulants, including caffeine, cause irritability among other bad side-effects. The only reason it's not characterized by these "modern addiction specialists", whatever that is, is because of both $$$ and how socially acceptable it is. Since you can get your caffeine fix in anyway for really cheap (or not so cheap if you want) and you can drink it at work without any weird looks it doesn't destroy your social life. Just because it doesn't destroy your social life doesn't mean it's not addictive, but I guess that's just the layman in me.
  - dionidium 7y ago
    > The only reason it's not characterized by these "modern addiction specialists", whatever that is As a sort of meta point, every time I use the phrase "modern addiction specialist" in a thread somebody responds expressing skepticism that such a thing exists or that the definition of addiction I've provided reflects consensus opinion. This is...weird. The American Psychiatric Association leads their "What is Addiction?" page with the following text: "Addiction is a complex condition, a brain disease that is manifested by compulsive substance use despite harmful consequence." https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/addiction/what-is-addiction https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/addiction/what-...
- LeoTinnitus 7y ago
  Yes and thats my rationale as well. People get so uptight about the phrase addiction that they assume it means it's bad. Addiction is only bad when it interferes with other parts of your life that it shouldn't. Also I've found most people rely on it for its performance enhancing aspect which I'd argue is why it can be addictive for most people. I for one am more prone to quit coffee in the summer than in the winter simply because of the temperature outside.
s_y_n_t_a_x 7y ago
What?!? It's one the most addictive drugs there is. Those migraines you mentioned are one of many terrible withdraw symptoms. It is the only drug I truly have been unable to quit. Despite weeks of being off of it, I always relapse after the cravings get too much. It was easier to quit cigs for me than it is to stop drinking coffee. If it's a stimulant it's going to be very hard to quit. The only reason it's not considered an addiction by experts is because you don't destroy your life when you run out, BECAUSE IT'S EVERYWHERE and super accepted (you can do it at work), also because I assume $$$. So it's sort of like mobile/social media addiction but worse because it's more acceptable and it has physical withdrawal/cravings. Now I'm going to go have a coffee because I have a headache and I'm irritated.
- LeoTinnitus 7y ago
  Sugar is addictive too. Should we cut that entirely out of our diets too? The fact that it isn't bad for you doesn't make addiction a bad thing. It's when addiction consumes your life and you forgo the good things in life that it becomes bad.
  - s_y_n_t_a_x 7y ago
    Didn't say we should cut it out, just was replying to the GP that it's not easy to quit, it's very addictive. I didn't say it would consume your life and make you forgo the good things.
codingslave 7y ago
I've met very few people in my lifetime who went from heavy caffeine usage to non.
- LeoTinnitus 7y ago
  People do it out of habit and because it tastes good. It becomes ritualistic in a way. I'm not sure how disiplined most people are, but I can just stop (and have several times). I choose not to because I enjoy it. If I'm super busy in the morning, I'll just go without. I don't treat it like a performance enhancing product that some may which I'd argue may be why it's harder for those types of people to quit. They rely on it to make up for other places in their life they are failing with.

atilaneves 7y ago

I got given it as a child in the form of coffee.

stronglikedan 7y ago

Is sugar a drug? If not, what would the differentiation be?

s_y_n_t_a_x 7y ago
Sugar is glucose plus whatever and is safe in moderation. Caffeine is a stimulant drug that you cannot give pregnant women more than a cup a day and it gives you physical withdrawals if you try to quit. edit: edited due to nitpicking.
- jjulius 7y ago
  >Sugar is glucose plus whatever and is safe in moderation. Lots of things that are addictive or considered a drug can be safe in moderation. >Caffeine is a stimulant drug that you cannot give pregnant women at all and it gives you physical withdrawals if you try to quit. Well that's just not true and I'd caution you to not speak in absolutes. Pregnant women can have finite amounts of caffeine. We just had our first child and my wife's doctor cleared her to have a cup a day during her pregnancy. A cup a day is, as far as I can tell, commonly considered OK[0]. "Current guidelines from the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG) and other experts say that it's safe for pregnant women to consume up to 200 milligrams of caffeine a day, or around one daily 12-ounce cup of coffee."[1] [0]https://americanpregnancy.org/pregnancy-health/caffeine-intake-during-pregnancy/ https://americanpregnancy.org/pregnancy-health/caffeine-inta... [1]https://www.whattoexpect.com/pregnancy/eating-well/week-4/caffeine-during-pregnancy.aspx https://www.whattoexpect.com/pregnancy/eating-well/week-4/ca...
  - s_y_n_t_a_x 7y ago
    The conclusion for the first article you linked is: > Avoiding caffeine as much as possible is your safest course of action. If you must get your fix, it is best to discuss this with your healthcare provider to make the healthiest choice for you and your baby. If caffeine isn't so addictive then it should be no problem to give it up for pregnancy :) Caffeine crosses the placenta to your baby which cannot metabolize it. There are numerous studies of how caffeine causes birth defects. I'll change my absolute but it doesn't really deter from my point that caffeine can be harmful drug in some scenarios (pregnancy) even when drinking it moderately (2-3 cups a day).

hnarn 7y ago

> small quantities like 1000 milligrams. Or, as it's also known, "1 gram".

balfirevic 7y ago

If your point is that many people are hypocritically and uncritically vilifying many drugs just because they they are called drugs - that's very true. Otherwise, why does it matter if the category of "drugs" includes coffee?