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Copper and Silver appear to have a protective effect vs. bacterial, viral and fungal infections, while not destroying healthy tissue. Perhaps we've committed a

Copper and Silver appear to have a protective effect vs. bacterial, viral and fungal infections, while not destroying healthy tissue. Perhaps we've committed a mistake similar to that of the British Admiralty, who replaced scurvy-preventing lemon juice with ineffective lime juice in 1860 (https://idlewords.com/2010/03/scott_and_scurvy.htm https://idlewords.com/2010/03/scott_and_scurvy.htm). By replacing copper and silver in common use (door-knobs, hand rails, cutlery), we've inadvertently exposed our populations to increased viral and bacterial infection.

guitarbill 7y ago
but at the same time, there's more anti-bacterial soap, better cleaning products and methods, improvements in material science for non-porous, easy to clean surfaces. so overall, it's possible we experience much less exposure, despite the lack of these metals in our immediate environment. in any case, it isn't obvious that a (small?) increase in exposure would necessarily be bad for the immune system and people. there's evidence that reduced microbial exposures in children leads to an increase in allergies (e.g. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1838109/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1838109/)
- wolco 7y ago
  Please share any better consumer cleaning products you found. What worked 70 years ago is still what works today from my experience.
  - guitarbill 7y ago
    widely available and cheap microfibre cloths are an example i think?
- lm28469 7y ago
  > there's more anti-bacterial soap, better cleaning products and methods, Metal door knobs and rails are passive, you don't need to think about them for them to be effective [0]. And you can't hoard metal door knobs as easily as hand sanitiser and masks. [0] if they are, I don't have an opinion on that.
  - DoreenMichele 7y ago
    They are also preventative in a way that hand washing is not. I don't know how to effectively express the difference. I've been trying to think about how because I wish we put more emphasis on "stop touching your face" than on hand washing. Hand washing kind of assumes you will continue to be a grubby person, mindlessly touching your face and everyone you know and all kinds of stuff all the time. And it's going to be okay because you washed it off, hopefully before it made you ill and hopefully before you passed it on. But in reality, it's far better to skew your focus towards stop touching stuff, etc, than to focus on washing hands so much. Don't get me wrong. I wash hands a metric fuckton. But I'm also amazingly careful about not touching stuff. It's kind of the difference between saying "Free love is totes fine! Just wear a condom!" And "It's best to only sleep with people you know well in a committed monogamous relationship. Wear a condom for any exceptions whatsoever and we actively recommend against orgies. Sorry to be a bummer, but orgies are never a hygiene best practice." I'm sorry if I'm making no sense. I'm actively working on trying to figure out how to say this well cuz Reasons. That makes this "practice." Sorry. (But not very.)
- travisporter 7y ago
  Slightly off topic, but antibacterial soap is discouraged by the FDA. https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/antibacterial-soap-you-can-skip-it-use-plain-soap-and-water https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/antibacterial...
  - masonic 7y ago
    This document predates the ban on triclosan and triclocarban.

guitarbill 7y ago

but at the same time, there's more anti-bacterial soap, better cleaning products and methods, improvements in material science for non-porous, easy to clean surfaces. so overall, it's possible we experience much less exposure, despite the lack of these metals in our immediate environment. in any case, it isn't obvious that a (small?) increase in exposure would necessarily be bad for the immune system and people. there's evidence that reduced microbial exposures in children leads to an increase in allergies (e.g. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1838109/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1838109/)

wolco 7y ago
Please share any better consumer cleaning products you found. What worked 70 years ago is still what works today from my experience.
- guitarbill 7y ago
  widely available and cheap microfibre cloths are an example i think?
lm28469 7y ago
> there's more anti-bacterial soap, better cleaning products and methods, Metal door knobs and rails are passive, you don't need to think about them for them to be effective [0]. And you can't hoard metal door knobs as easily as hand sanitiser and masks. [0] if they are, I don't have an opinion on that.
- DoreenMichele 7y ago
  They are also preventative in a way that hand washing is not. I don't know how to effectively express the difference. I've been trying to think about how because I wish we put more emphasis on "stop touching your face" than on hand washing. Hand washing kind of assumes you will continue to be a grubby person, mindlessly touching your face and everyone you know and all kinds of stuff all the time. And it's going to be okay because you washed it off, hopefully before it made you ill and hopefully before you passed it on. But in reality, it's far better to skew your focus towards stop touching stuff, etc, than to focus on washing hands so much. Don't get me wrong. I wash hands a metric fuckton. But I'm also amazingly careful about not touching stuff. It's kind of the difference between saying "Free love is totes fine! Just wear a condom!" And "It's best to only sleep with people you know well in a committed monogamous relationship. Wear a condom for any exceptions whatsoever and we actively recommend against orgies. Sorry to be a bummer, but orgies are never a hygiene best practice." I'm sorry if I'm making no sense. I'm actively working on trying to figure out how to say this well cuz Reasons. That makes this "practice." Sorry. (But not very.)
travisporter 7y ago
Slightly off topic, but antibacterial soap is discouraged by the FDA. https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/antibacterial-soap-you-can-skip-it-use-plain-soap-and-water https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/antibacterial...
- masonic 7y ago
  This document predates the ban on triclosan and triclocarban.