4 ms·

Let this be a lesson to learn for western democracies to not put all of their eggs in one basket. Diversification, localization and strategic globalization of t

Let this be a lesson to learn for western democracies to not put all of their eggs in one basket. Diversification, localization and strategic globalization of the supply chain should be at the forefront of the issues to be discussed, ratified and acted upon after this pandemic is over. When one country manufactures 90% of world's goods (not accurate, to make a point), while the top 1% gets their bonuses for increasing profit margins, this is what we have. We've lost skills, we've lost our stance to manufacture things in our own homeland. It is depressing, deeply worrying and feels like the entire world has been gutted out by one country. Just to make it clear - think about this scenario - what would happen if one country made the food for the rest of the world? (Thankfully, we don't, but it can happen). What about pharmaceuticals? (Unfortunately, 90% of the world's generic drugs are made in Asia, primarily in India who in turn depends on China) [1]. [1] China is the world's largest raw materials exporter for Drugs: https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-opens-door-to-foreign-drugs-for-a-discount-1543320003?mod=article_inline https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-opens-door-to-foreign-dru... Edit: I just realized that some of the startup and entrepreneurs around the world are on this forum, if you'd like to get into manufacturing, want to learn about more abstract concepts of manufacturing, I implore you to checkout: Manufacturing Planning and Control for Supply Chain Management reference book - https://books.google.com/books/about/Manufacturing_Planning_and_Control_for_S.html?id=TkGRswEACAAJ https://books.google.com/books/about/Manufacturing_Planning_... This book is absolute gold. Manufacturing is like playing this game Factorio (google it) but in real life. It is an exciting field ripe for innovation, many very hard problems and unlimited potential (and a lot of risk as well).

oezi 7y ago
But can this be done without abandoning capitalism as a primary driving economic model? It would require a reversal in economic steering (tariffs, government intervention, etc) of enormous scale. The only thing that has come to matter is the hunt to squeeze every penny, we have forgotten to do anything else.
- wbl 7y ago
  Tariffs result in domestic industries that can't compete. Germany has an export oriented manufacturing sector that employs lots of people and the US doesn't not because of Chins but because of US management.
  - m0zg 7y ago
    Lack of tariffs results in no domestic industries at all.
- nostromo 7y ago
  Look at farming subsidies as an example. The government funds some percent of our food production by putting in place limited price and production controls for American-produced goods. The hand of the market is not completely removed: producers still want to be as efficient as possible. The cost of food has gone down over time. And inefficient producers still go bankrupt. Is this a good model? I have no idea. It certainly has drawbacks. (Ex: we subsidize too much corn and wheat.) But the US can feed itself without China or OPEC, so that's nice.
  - lambdaba 7y ago
    > It certainly has drawbacks. (Ex: we subsidize too much corn and wheat.) Huge drawback right here, corn (high fructose corn syrup, corn itself) and wheat are both at the center of the obesity epidemic and health crisis. It's a point that's often brought up and isn't controversial at this point, but inertia makes it hard to correct, especially with said subsidies.
    - systemvoltage 7y ago
      Let's go to the source of this problem - Corn/Wheat lobbyist paying off lawmakers in DC. This is the root cause of American sell out. It is an awful system that needs to be completely dismantled, criminilized and banned. Please don't tell me about how each special group has the right to lobby... this is an asymmetrical game. As the corn/wheat lobbyists lobby, who is opposing them? No one. And, as their interests are in billions of dollars, it is literally impossible of oppose. I am willing to bet, large number of America's problems can be traced straight to the abhorrently corrupt process of lobbying.
      - ethbro 7y ago
        '... democracy is the worst form of Government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time...' What's your proposal for how to ban lobbying?
        7y ago
- systemvoltage 7y ago
  I don't have a good answer. First and foremost, the shipping rates for consumer goods from China is outrageously low. People buying from Germany to Australia to USA - $2 shipped PCBs and $4 toys shipped - all have one thing in common: Shipping cost is highly subsized because of this treaty - https://www.vox.com/2018/10/19/17996378/trump-china-universal-postal-union-treaty https://www.vox.com/2018/10/19/17996378/trump-china-universa... Specifcally, the problem is the Universal Postal Union: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Postal_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Postal_Union Locally made goods can benefit from some tax breaks and government subsidies as well, but the aforementioned problem needs to be resolved. Alas, it won't be because executives keep lobbying and paying off key decision makers. The whole thing is corrupt. I don't agree with President Trump on majority of things, but I try to not let bias triumph over logic, pragmatism and rational ideas; no matter who is pushing them.
- op03 7y ago
  This is what will happen to the 1000 bucks that they deposit in all accounts. People don't get the number of systems that will automatically target the most vulnerable/easily exploitable as soon as a deposit shows up, is a much bigger issue than actually handing cash out to people. The "squeeze every penny" mega machine has grown so complex and large its hard to see how it can be dismantled.
cycrutchfield 7y ago
Strategic stockpiles seem much more cost effective than autarky.
- theslurmmustflo 7y ago
  What if you go to war or the other country chooses to impose economic sanctions?
  - s1artibartfast 7y ago
    As long as it goes both way, that seems like a good way to prevent wars.
    - 9HZZRfNlpR 7y ago
      One of the main ideas when they founded the EU.
- godzillabrennus 7y ago
  Yeah, seems like a more realistic approach than trying to bring back jobs from the developing world.
- systemvoltage 7y ago
  It is not about autarky, but diversification and resiliency of the supply chain. Automakers are experts at this - BMW cars made in USA (South Carolina) have US made parts and ones made in Germany have locally sourced parts from Germany, yet the ones made in South Africa have diversified sources - both local and international. If you're in the US, you can see this % of locally made parts right on the window price sticker. It's not just for show - if there is a shortage of headliners in US, it can import it for a short term needs from Europe and vice-versa. No one is suggesting complete in-house isolation aka Autarky, but to avoid SPOF (single point of failure) supply chains - probability of each link breaking adds up when your supply chain is 18 levels deep from an iPhone to the copper mine.
  - 7y ago

oezi 7y ago

But can this be done without abandoning capitalism as a primary driving economic model? It would require a reversal in economic steering (tariffs, government intervention, etc) of enormous scale. The only thing that has come to matter is the hunt to squeeze every penny, we have forgotten to do anything else.

wbl 7y ago
Tariffs result in domestic industries that can't compete. Germany has an export oriented manufacturing sector that employs lots of people and the US doesn't not because of Chins but because of US management.
- m0zg 7y ago
  Lack of tariffs results in no domestic industries at all.
nostromo 7y ago
Look at farming subsidies as an example. The government funds some percent of our food production by putting in place limited price and production controls for American-produced goods. The hand of the market is not completely removed: producers still want to be as efficient as possible. The cost of food has gone down over time. And inefficient producers still go bankrupt. Is this a good model? I have no idea. It certainly has drawbacks. (Ex: we subsidize too much corn and wheat.) But the US can feed itself without China or OPEC, so that's nice.
- lambdaba 7y ago
  > It certainly has drawbacks. (Ex: we subsidize too much corn and wheat.) Huge drawback right here, corn (high fructose corn syrup, corn itself) and wheat are both at the center of the obesity epidemic and health crisis. It's a point that's often brought up and isn't controversial at this point, but inertia makes it hard to correct, especially with said subsidies.
  - systemvoltage 7y ago
    Let's go to the source of this problem - Corn/Wheat lobbyist paying off lawmakers in DC. This is the root cause of American sell out. It is an awful system that needs to be completely dismantled, criminilized and banned. Please don't tell me about how each special group has the right to lobby... this is an asymmetrical game. As the corn/wheat lobbyists lobby, who is opposing them? No one. And, as their interests are in billions of dollars, it is literally impossible of oppose. I am willing to bet, large number of America's problems can be traced straight to the abhorrently corrupt process of lobbying.
    - ethbro 7y ago
      '... democracy is the worst form of Government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time...' What's your proposal for how to ban lobbying?
      - 7y ago
systemvoltage 7y ago
I don't have a good answer. First and foremost, the shipping rates for consumer goods from China is outrageously low. People buying from Germany to Australia to USA - $2 shipped PCBs and $4 toys shipped - all have one thing in common: Shipping cost is highly subsized because of this treaty - https://www.vox.com/2018/10/19/17996378/trump-china-universal-postal-union-treaty https://www.vox.com/2018/10/19/17996378/trump-china-universa... Specifcally, the problem is the Universal Postal Union: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Postal_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Postal_Union Locally made goods can benefit from some tax breaks and government subsidies as well, but the aforementioned problem needs to be resolved. Alas, it won't be because executives keep lobbying and paying off key decision makers. The whole thing is corrupt. I don't agree with President Trump on majority of things, but I try to not let bias triumph over logic, pragmatism and rational ideas; no matter who is pushing them.
op03 7y ago
This is what will happen to the 1000 bucks that they deposit in all accounts. People don't get the number of systems that will automatically target the most vulnerable/easily exploitable as soon as a deposit shows up, is a much bigger issue than actually handing cash out to people. The "squeeze every penny" mega machine has grown so complex and large its hard to see how it can be dismantled.

cycrutchfield 7y ago

Strategic stockpiles seem much more cost effective than autarky.

theslurmmustflo 7y ago
What if you go to war or the other country chooses to impose economic sanctions?
- s1artibartfast 7y ago
  As long as it goes both way, that seems like a good way to prevent wars.
  - 9HZZRfNlpR 7y ago
    One of the main ideas when they founded the EU.
godzillabrennus 7y ago
Yeah, seems like a more realistic approach than trying to bring back jobs from the developing world.
systemvoltage 7y ago
It is not about autarky, but diversification and resiliency of the supply chain. Automakers are experts at this - BMW cars made in USA (South Carolina) have US made parts and ones made in Germany have locally sourced parts from Germany, yet the ones made in South Africa have diversified sources - both local and international. If you're in the US, you can see this % of locally made parts right on the window price sticker. It's not just for show - if there is a shortage of headliners in US, it can import it for a short term needs from Europe and vice-versa. No one is suggesting complete in-house isolation aka Autarky, but to avoid SPOF (single point of failure) supply chains - probability of each link breaking adds up when your supply chain is 18 levels deep from an iPhone to the copper mine.
- 7y ago