3 ms·

Stories like these make me feel like Orwellian ubiquitous surveillance might not turn out so bad after all.

mannykannot 7y ago
We are in an Orwellian situation: there is extensive surveillance, but its use is firmly in the hands of the government and its institutions. if the government were promoting justice and protecting rights, that would be one thing, but in cases like this, it is not.
- cinquemb 7y ago
  The radical solution will be eventually to extend the tools of surveillance and place them in the hands of the masses. Increasingly cheaper hardware and increasingly prevalent knowledge of software will support this.
  - bsanr2 7y ago
    Until deepfakes become more sophisticated. We have a serious problem on our hands, that we will probably need to solve as much with social and pyschological system retools as with technological ones.
    - cinquemb 7y ago
      Well regardless of whether social and psychological can keep up, the incentives to push the technological ones forward are happening now. Those who wont be able to adapt to the fact that entrenched power structures will become increasingly irrelevant at being the arbiters of truth and information will suffer most.
      - bsanr2 7y ago
        Well, 2 things: 1) The entrenched power structures will be most able to abuse this technology, as they have the social structure through which the technology acts on their side, and 2)The lack of any authority, central or otherwise, makes the importance of these soft and constructed parameters even more important, not less. If you're betting on anarchy sorting more effectively because you think authority distorts a natural balance, that's probably not the case. When you remove the tentpole, you're not freed from the tent, it just collapses on top of you with all its weight. Everyone needs to have their personal pillars ready.
        cinquemb 7y ago
        RE #1: I agree that this is the case now, but this depends on people who build these tools and systems to not co-opt and subvert them for their own ends. RE #2: I'm not betting on anarchy, but on the emergence of form of a way of organization that is able to operate with bit of disregard of entrenched power structures by co-opting those who work for them yet don't feel they receive enough benefits from the current situation to uphold a particular institutions beliefs, and willing to explore the horizon for more options. The tent-pole isn't something necessary to remove, and it's not necessarily desired remove because it allows for those who lack will to purse any other way to rely on its existence for shelter, while others can simply walk out the tent, and construct/decommission a structure that which they choose for any particular ends, and walk in/out of the tent and leverage its resources as it sees fit and work with others who share similar goals against those can not imagine any other way of being. I think a good example of this is with regards to academics and shared credential usage that enables sci-hub. I see a similar situation unfolding in banking right now.
        bsanr2 7y ago
        >I'm not betting on anarchy, but on the emergence of form of a way of organization that is able to operate with bit of disregard of entrenched power structures by co-opting those who work for them yet don't feel they receive enough benefits from the current situation to uphold a particular institutions beliefs, and willing to explore the horizon for more options. Sounds like a religion. >while others can simply walk out the tent, and construct/decommission a structure that which they choose for any particular ends, and walk in/out of the tent and leverage its resources as it sees fit and work with others who share similar goals against those can not imagine any other way of being. I think a good example of this is with regards to academics and shared credential usage that enables sci-hub. I see a similar situation unfolding in banking right now. The problem with this is that the people who are privileged to be able to walk in and out tend to feel entitled to the tent because they have access, but not obligated because "they can leave any time," not observing that their lifestyle still requires the tent and the people living under it.
        7y ago

We are in an Orwellian situation: there is extensive surveillance, but its use is firmly in the hands of the government and its institutions. if the government were promoting justice and protecting rights, that would be one thing, but in cases like this, it is not.

cinquemb 7y ago
The radical solution will be eventually to extend the tools of surveillance and place them in the hands of the masses. Increasingly cheaper hardware and increasingly prevalent knowledge of software will support this.
- bsanr2 7y ago
  Until deepfakes become more sophisticated. We have a serious problem on our hands, that we will probably need to solve as much with social and pyschological system retools as with technological ones.
  - cinquemb 7y ago
    Well regardless of whether social and psychological can keep up, the incentives to push the technological ones forward are happening now. Those who wont be able to adapt to the fact that entrenched power structures will become increasingly irrelevant at being the arbiters of truth and information will suffer most.
    - bsanr2 7y ago
      Well, 2 things: 1) The entrenched power structures will be most able to abuse this technology, as they have the social structure through which the technology acts on their side, and 2)The lack of any authority, central or otherwise, makes the importance of these soft and constructed parameters even more important, not less. If you're betting on anarchy sorting more effectively because you think authority distorts a natural balance, that's probably not the case. When you remove the tentpole, you're not freed from the tent, it just collapses on top of you with all its weight. Everyone needs to have their personal pillars ready.
      - cinquemb 7y ago
        RE #1: I agree that this is the case now, but this depends on people who build these tools and systems to not co-opt and subvert them for their own ends. RE #2: I'm not betting on anarchy, but on the emergence of form of a way of organization that is able to operate with bit of disregard of entrenched power structures by co-opting those who work for them yet don't feel they receive enough benefits from the current situation to uphold a particular institutions beliefs, and willing to explore the horizon for more options. The tent-pole isn't something necessary to remove, and it's not necessarily desired remove because it allows for those who lack will to purse any other way to rely on its existence for shelter, while others can simply walk out the tent, and construct/decommission a structure that which they choose for any particular ends, and walk in/out of the tent and leverage its resources as it sees fit and work with others who share similar goals against those can not imagine any other way of being. I think a good example of this is with regards to academics and shared credential usage that enables sci-hub. I see a similar situation unfolding in banking right now.
        bsanr2 7y ago
        >I'm not betting on anarchy, but on the emergence of form of a way of organization that is able to operate with bit of disregard of entrenched power structures by co-opting those who work for them yet don't feel they receive enough benefits from the current situation to uphold a particular institutions beliefs, and willing to explore the horizon for more options. Sounds like a religion. >while others can simply walk out the tent, and construct/decommission a structure that which they choose for any particular ends, and walk in/out of the tent and leverage its resources as it sees fit and work with others who share similar goals against those can not imagine any other way of being. I think a good example of this is with regards to academics and shared credential usage that enables sci-hub. I see a similar situation unfolding in banking right now. The problem with this is that the people who are privileged to be able to walk in and out tend to feel entitled to the tent because they have access, but not obligated because "they can leave any time," not observing that their lifestyle still requires the tent and the people living under it.
        7y ago