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Chat is probably one of the only functionalities that are still better served by an ad-hoc app If you need notifications, just use a native app (or even a web

by asjw 7y ago

Chat is probably one of the only functionalities that are still better served by an ad-hoc app If you need notifications, just use a native app (or even a web one wrapped in a native app) Anyway, most of these "features" are used because they are already there, remove them from the base install of the browser, distribute them as a plugin and make the devs consider that the feature could not be present and they will stop nagging the users begging for their attention Any website I visit from mobile wants the permission to notify me, 99% of them don't if I visit from desktop Why is that? I guess we all know the answer

cj 7y ago
> Any website I visit from mobile wants the permission to notify me Strange, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a permission prompt on mobile. Chrome, iOS
zzo38computer 7y ago
> Chat is probably one of the only functionalities that are still better served by an ad-hoc app Yes, actually, IRC works better for chat, I think. Actually, it is probably true of some other stuff too, such as many kind of multiplayer games; you could use a telnet (or SSH) session.
- chinesempire 7y ago
  I guess you're trying to be sarcastic, but it's not working
  - zzo38computer 7y ago
    Actually I am not trying to be sarcastic.
    - chinesempire 7y ago
      Then I'm sorry and I mostly agree.
stickfigure 7y ago
Let's say you're using some random website and want to talk to their sales or support team. How well do you think "download this app to chat with us" is going to go over?
- chinesempire 7y ago
  That's what email, phone or support tickets are for... My experience with this kind of services has always been lame and I strongly believe only bad businesses use them For example the two larger e-commerce sites in the world,Amazon and Alibaba don't use them If they were a major improvement, they would.
  - stickfigure 7y ago
    Amazon and Alibaba are pure consumer plays with a mass audience. They deliberately hide the contact forms to force you through self-service UIs. If you try the same thing with a B2B or other high-touch service, it's not going to end well for you. Personally I get a terrific amount of value from interacting with my B2B customers through chats, video calls, and screenshares. The customers love it.
    - chinesempire 7y ago
      > If you try the same thing with a B2B or other high-touch service, it's not going to end well for you. In my experience B2B businesses call you, they want to talk to someone, not to a chat bot. My biggest complain is in fact that I have to take phone calls because clients refuse to use other means of communication.
arendtio 7y ago
This is not just about chat. Ever tried to build a cross-device synchronization without being able to push updates to clients? It sucks. The user doesn't know that another user changed something until he opens the app and then the app has to fetch and integrate all updates since the last interaction with the app and the user has to wait until his app is ready.
- chinesempire 7y ago
  In whhat way a web app is better in this regards? Most app that need to push updates to the client do it by having a background service talking to the update server or polling for updates You can even do it via HTTP(S) if every other protocol is blocked by a firewall or a corporate proxy
  - arendtio 7y ago
    Web apps are better because they are as much device-independent as apps can get nowadays. Service Workers are the background service for web apps, but since users don't want those services to drain the battery unnecessarily, you have to use the Push API to trigger those background jobs. So yes, if the app is the active app, you can do polling, WebSockets and all the like and have no problem. Background services are (rightfully) limited for web apps, but not even providing the Push API kills a lot of valid use cases. Firefox and Chrome both provide that API.
    - chinesempire 7y ago
      > Web apps are better because they are as much device-independent as apps can get nowadays They are actually not really. If you can't run a modern browser on your platform, you're out of luck. I think the real "as much device-independent as it can get nowadays" is just Firefox On the major platforms Java is as much as device independent as the web
      - arendtio 7y ago
        What do you mean by 'just Firefox'? Firefox, Chrome, Edge, Safari all support Progressive Web Apps in general. Older browsers, on the other hand, might not be able to use offline features, but at least you can use the app in the traditional always-on mode. For your comparison with Java: It is true, Java is very device-independent, but the deployment procedures are much more complicated than simply entering a URL.

by asjw 7y ago

cj 7y ago

> Any website I visit from mobile wants the permission to notify me Strange, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a permission prompt on mobile. Chrome, iOS

zzo38computer 7y ago

> Chat is probably one of the only functionalities that are still better served by an ad-hoc app Yes, actually, IRC works better for chat, I think. Actually, it is probably true of some other stuff too, such as many kind of multiplayer games; you could use a telnet (or SSH) session.

chinesempire 7y ago
I guess you're trying to be sarcastic, but it's not working
- zzo38computer 7y ago
  Actually I am not trying to be sarcastic.
  - chinesempire 7y ago
    Then I'm sorry and I mostly agree.

stickfigure 7y ago

Let's say you're using some random website and want to talk to their sales or support team. How well do you think "download this app to chat with us" is going to go over?

chinesempire 7y ago
That's what email, phone or support tickets are for... My experience with this kind of services has always been lame and I strongly believe only bad businesses use them For example the two larger e-commerce sites in the world,Amazon and Alibaba don't use them If they were a major improvement, they would.
- stickfigure 7y ago
  Amazon and Alibaba are pure consumer plays with a mass audience. They deliberately hide the contact forms to force you through self-service UIs. If you try the same thing with a B2B or other high-touch service, it's not going to end well for you. Personally I get a terrific amount of value from interacting with my B2B customers through chats, video calls, and screenshares. The customers love it.
  - chinesempire 7y ago
    > If you try the same thing with a B2B or other high-touch service, it's not going to end well for you. In my experience B2B businesses call you, they want to talk to someone, not to a chat bot. My biggest complain is in fact that I have to take phone calls because clients refuse to use other means of communication.

arendtio 7y ago

This is not just about chat. Ever tried to build a cross-device synchronization without being able to push updates to clients? It sucks. The user doesn't know that another user changed something until he opens the app and then the app has to fetch and integrate all updates since the last interaction with the app and the user has to wait until his app is ready.

chinesempire 7y ago
In whhat way a web app is better in this regards? Most app that need to push updates to the client do it by having a background service talking to the update server or polling for updates You can even do it via HTTP(S) if every other protocol is blocked by a firewall or a corporate proxy
- arendtio 7y ago
  Web apps are better because they are as much device-independent as apps can get nowadays. Service Workers are the background service for web apps, but since users don't want those services to drain the battery unnecessarily, you have to use the Push API to trigger those background jobs. So yes, if the app is the active app, you can do polling, WebSockets and all the like and have no problem. Background services are (rightfully) limited for web apps, but not even providing the Push API kills a lot of valid use cases. Firefox and Chrome both provide that API.
  - chinesempire 7y ago
    > Web apps are better because they are as much device-independent as apps can get nowadays They are actually not really. If you can't run a modern browser on your platform, you're out of luck. I think the real "as much device-independent as it can get nowadays" is just Firefox On the major platforms Java is as much as device independent as the web
    - arendtio 7y ago
      What do you mean by 'just Firefox'? Firefox, Chrome, Edge, Safari all support Progressive Web Apps in general. Older browsers, on the other hand, might not be able to use offline features, but at least you can use the app in the traditional always-on mode. For your comparison with Java: It is true, Java is very device-independent, but the deployment procedures are much more complicated than simply entering a URL.