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A few months ago there was blog post posted here from a guy making movie reviews. In the blog post he described how he managed to get 4k Netflix screenshots on

A few months ago there was blog post posted here from a guy making movie reviews. In the blog post he described how he managed to get 4k Netflix screenshots on his Chromecast. The effort he made was enormous and involved reverse engineering the Netflix data protocol (I probably worded this wrong). When doing that he found out that Netflix streaming in 4k isn't actually 4k. Again not exactly sure how this worked but that was the result. And he put some kind of device between the Chromecast and the TV. And at the end of the post he shared his top movies of the year or in the previous post. Does anyone know what I am talking about? I've thought about this pist several times in the past weeks.

rwol 7y ago
This one? https://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/2019/02/14/adventures-in-netflix/ https://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/2019/02/14/adventures-in-netfli...
- BenJong-Il 7y ago
  Exactly! I also just found it. Don't know how I didn't manage to find it before. The comments were quite critical. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21669234 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21669234
- wmf 7y ago
  There's nothing in there about 4K not being 4K, just some griping about low bitrates. On computers you can access some debug stats https://www.reddit.com/r/netflix/comments/2fkylx/hidden_netflix_menu_to_set_quality_bonus_hidden/ https://www.reddit.com/r/netflix/comments/2fkylx/hidden_netf... and Roku also has it https://community.roku.com/t5/Channel-Issues-Questions/Somehow-got-Netflix-playback-statistics-in-top-left/td-p/462513 https://community.roku.com/t5/Channel-Issues-Questions/Someh...
  - nrp 7y ago
    I think in the end the author's only complaint was that it was difficult to figure out what bitrate the Chromecast was streaming at, is a pretty minor problem. It reads like a complaint post, but that seems to just be the author's writing style.
  - fulafel 7y ago
    You're technially right but conceptually he did show that the bitrate isn't in the normal 4k ballpark. There's likely little or no benefit on using a 4k resolution at this bitrate. In his experiment the Chroomecast on wifi gets a ~6 Mbps stream for 4k, which is about 20% of an average quality Handbrake encoded 4k stream. The surprise was that in his experiment Apple TV got so much higher bitrate. Market segmentation?
    - wmf 7y ago
      It's possible to capture the output and analyze the detail so I don't want to hear about what's "likely".
itcrowd 7y ago
I think this is the one you need. Interesting, thanks for the suggestion to search for it! https://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/2019/02/14/adventures-in-netflix/ https://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/2019/02/14/adventures-in-netfli...
- jiveturkey 7y ago
  epic
- ehsankia 7y ago
  I did not read the whole thing, but could it simply be that Netflix detects whatever technique the author is trying to use and that something is up, so it defaults to non-4K streaming?
DavidVoid 7y ago
On a related note, if you watch Netflix in Chrome or Firefox then you're only getting a resolution of 720p. Google Chrome Up to 720p on Windows, Mac, and Linux Up to 1080p on Chrome OS Internet Explorer up to 1080p Microsoft Edge up to 4K* Mozilla Firefox up to 720p Opera up to 720p Safari up to 1080p on Mac OS X 10.10.3 or later *Streaming in 4K requires an HDCP 2.2 compliant connection to a 4K capable display, Intel's 7th generation Core CPU, and the latest Windows updates. Check with the manufacturer of your system to verify specifications. From: https://help.netflix.com/en/node/23742 https://help.netflix.com/en/node/23742 I really wish they'd just allow up to 4K streaming on all main browsers. The Windows 10 app is awful and very buggy for multi-monitor setups. The two main issues I run into with it are: 1. The video will stutter unless I set both my monitors to the same refresh rate. As you can imagine, it's somewhat annoying to have to lower the refresh rate of my main monitor from 144Hz to 60Hz whenever I want to watch Netflix. 2. When playing in fullscreen on one monitor, the video will randomly minimize if I interact with any applications on my second monitor! So if I want to look something up online or whatever as I'm watching, I have to switch to windowed mode or I risk having the video just minimize and mute itself.
- ehsankia 7y ago
  Wow, they should really make that clearer, especially since IIRC they charge for 4K streaming... This is probably how they get away with providing 4K without destroying their network: by making people think they are getting 4K when most are really are just watching 720p
  - iso947 7y ago
    If you don’t realise it’s not 4K, maybe it’s not worth the extra cost
    - TomMarius 7y ago
      Yeah, that's why they should say something. I was not aware I was getting lower quality, I thought the movies look awful.
coribuci 7y ago
> When doing that he found out that Netflix streaming in 4k isn't actually 4k. Well, after so many people praising streaming i wanted to check what this means. According to wikipedia the server adapts to the clients bandwidth. So you can get UHD with the quality of mpeg1. > Does anyone know what I am talking about? I've thought about this pist several times in the past weeks. Yes. That's why i decided that streaming is not really a solution. It is really amazing how they are selling crap claiming that they have better quality. Damn, even an AM transmission sounds better.
Youden 7y ago
It looks like he didn't reverse-engineer the Netflix data protocol. What he did is use a HDCP-stripper box to get access to a raw decoded HDMI signal. The HDCP-stripper also had a screenshot function which he used to get snapshots of the video he was playing. He also monitored how much network traffic was being used while playing Netflix videos to get an estimate of the bitrate that was being played. The 4K videos were consistently around 18Mbps, which is reasonable. FWIW, you can (normally) get a HDCP stripper from AliExpress for $10. This isn't particularly exotic hardware.
nicolas_t 7y ago
I think you're talking about this article https://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/2019/02/14/adventures-in-netflix/ https://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/2019/02/14/adventures-in-netfli...
fulafel 7y ago
The resolution on Netflix is not a useful indicator of anything (other than an upper bound on image quality). The "1080" Netflix for me usually looks nothing like the average FHD encode of a movie through other channels. A Netflix "4k" stream downscaled to 1080p would probably be closer to normal FHD encode quality. This is not really surprising as most of the audience is very insensitive to quality.

rwol 7y ago

This one? https://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/2019/02/14/adventures-in-netflix/ https://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/2019/02/14/adventures-in-netfli...

BenJong-Il 7y ago
Exactly! I also just found it. Don't know how I didn't manage to find it before. The comments were quite critical. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21669234 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21669234
wmf 7y ago
There's nothing in there about 4K not being 4K, just some griping about low bitrates. On computers you can access some debug stats https://www.reddit.com/r/netflix/comments/2fkylx/hidden_netflix_menu_to_set_quality_bonus_hidden/ https://www.reddit.com/r/netflix/comments/2fkylx/hidden_netf... and Roku also has it https://community.roku.com/t5/Channel-Issues-Questions/Somehow-got-Netflix-playback-statistics-in-top-left/td-p/462513 https://community.roku.com/t5/Channel-Issues-Questions/Someh...
- nrp 7y ago
  I think in the end the author's only complaint was that it was difficult to figure out what bitrate the Chromecast was streaming at, is a pretty minor problem. It reads like a complaint post, but that seems to just be the author's writing style.
- fulafel 7y ago
  You're technially right but conceptually he did show that the bitrate isn't in the normal 4k ballpark. There's likely little or no benefit on using a 4k resolution at this bitrate. In his experiment the Chroomecast on wifi gets a ~6 Mbps stream for 4k, which is about 20% of an average quality Handbrake encoded 4k stream. The surprise was that in his experiment Apple TV got so much higher bitrate. Market segmentation?
  - wmf 7y ago
    It's possible to capture the output and analyze the detail so I don't want to hear about what's "likely".

itcrowd 7y ago

I think this is the one you need. Interesting, thanks for the suggestion to search for it! https://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/2019/02/14/adventures-in-netflix/ https://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/2019/02/14/adventures-in-netfli...

jiveturkey 7y ago
epic
ehsankia 7y ago
I did not read the whole thing, but could it simply be that Netflix detects whatever technique the author is trying to use and that something is up, so it defaults to non-4K streaming?

DavidVoid 7y ago

On a related note, if you watch Netflix in Chrome or Firefox then you're only getting a resolution of 720p. Google Chrome Up to 720p on Windows, Mac, and Linux Up to 1080p on Chrome OS Internet Explorer up to 1080p Microsoft Edge up to 4K* Mozilla Firefox up to 720p Opera up to 720p Safari up to 1080p on Mac OS X 10.10.3 or later *Streaming in 4K requires an HDCP 2.2 compliant connection to a 4K capable display, Intel's 7th generation Core CPU, and the latest Windows updates. Check with the manufacturer of your system to verify specifications. From: https://help.netflix.com/en/node/23742 https://help.netflix.com/en/node/23742 I really wish they'd just allow up to 4K streaming on all main browsers. The Windows 10 app is awful and very buggy for multi-monitor setups. The two main issues I run into with it are: 1. The video will stutter unless I set both my monitors to the same refresh rate. As you can imagine, it's somewhat annoying to have to lower the refresh rate of my main monitor from 144Hz to 60Hz whenever I want to watch Netflix. 2. When playing in fullscreen on one monitor, the video will randomly minimize if I interact with any applications on my second monitor! So if I want to look something up online or whatever as I'm watching, I have to switch to windowed mode or I risk having the video just minimize and mute itself.

ehsankia 7y ago
Wow, they should really make that clearer, especially since IIRC they charge for 4K streaming... This is probably how they get away with providing 4K without destroying their network: by making people think they are getting 4K when most are really are just watching 720p
- iso947 7y ago
  If you don’t realise it’s not 4K, maybe it’s not worth the extra cost
  - TomMarius 7y ago
    Yeah, that's why they should say something. I was not aware I was getting lower quality, I thought the movies look awful.

coribuci 7y ago

> When doing that he found out that Netflix streaming in 4k isn't actually 4k. Well, after so many people praising streaming i wanted to check what this means. According to wikipedia the server adapts to the clients bandwidth. So you can get UHD with the quality of mpeg1. > Does anyone know what I am talking about? I've thought about this pist several times in the past weeks. Yes. That's why i decided that streaming is not really a solution. It is really amazing how they are selling crap claiming that they have better quality. Damn, even an AM transmission sounds better.

Youden 7y ago

It looks like he didn't reverse-engineer the Netflix data protocol. What he did is use a HDCP-stripper box to get access to a raw decoded HDMI signal. The HDCP-stripper also had a screenshot function which he used to get snapshots of the video he was playing. He also monitored how much network traffic was being used while playing Netflix videos to get an estimate of the bitrate that was being played. The 4K videos were consistently around 18Mbps, which is reasonable. FWIW, you can (normally) get a HDCP stripper from AliExpress for $10. This isn't particularly exotic hardware.

nicolas_t 7y ago

I think you're talking about this article https://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/2019/02/14/adventures-in-netflix/ https://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/2019/02/14/adventures-in-netfli...

fulafel 7y ago

The resolution on Netflix is not a useful indicator of anything (other than an upper bound on image quality). The "1080" Netflix for me usually looks nothing like the average FHD encode of a movie through other channels. A Netflix "4k" stream downscaled to 1080p would probably be closer to normal FHD encode quality. This is not really surprising as most of the audience is very insensitive to quality.