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> What I am saying is that it’s worth to try this as one of the first steps because it’s easy to do Why should someone try it if it’s abundantly obvious to the

> What I am saying is that it’s worth to try this as one of the first steps because it’s easy to do Why should someone try it if it’s abundantly obvious to them from the outset that the causes of their problem are of a different sort, for which this could not possibly help? You’re still assuming that it is something that is potentially relevant to everyone. Put another way, you’re assuming that all sleep problems are of a sort that could potentially be caused/exacerbated by caffeine, and that the person with the problems couldn’t possibly tell that caffeine was irrelevant unless they tried removing it.

Ididntdothis 7y ago
“you’re assuming that all sleep problems are of a sort that could potentially be caused/exacerbated by caffeine, and that the person with the problems couldn’t possibly tell that caffeine was irrelevant unless they tried removing it.” Yes. The keyword is “could” I am not saying “always is”.
- jamesrcole 7y ago
  “Could” is wrong. For someone like me, I know from the outset the kind of thing that causes the sleep problems. It could not be anything like coffee. I wish I could wave a magic wand and make you experience what I do.
  - oh_sigh 7y ago
    Have you ever tried cutting caffeine out of your diet?
    - jamesrcole 7y ago
      I’ve had lots of periods (from months to years) in my life with zero caffeine. Including all of my childhood, and I’ve had the sleep problems all my life. Think about what that means for what you’re saying. Yet people like you are so sure it could be the cause or contribute, and that I could never know without cutting it out of my diet. Even aside from what I mentioned above, if you experienced what I experience you would know that it couldn’t possibly influence why I have sleep problems.
  - Ididntdothis 7y ago
    I have a lot sympathy for your situation and I am sure you have been worn down by stupid advice from a lot of people. I sometimes have depression and I am tired of advice to “lighten up”. But let me just repeat: I believe that if somebody has sleep problems it’s worth as a first step to try going off caffeine. There is no guarantee but it will help a lot of people but not all.

Ididntdothis 7y ago

“you’re assuming that all sleep problems are of a sort that could potentially be caused/exacerbated by caffeine, and that the person with the problems couldn’t possibly tell that caffeine was irrelevant unless they tried removing it.” Yes. The keyword is “could” I am not saying “always is”.

jamesrcole 7y ago
“Could” is wrong. For someone like me, I know from the outset the kind of thing that causes the sleep problems. It could not be anything like coffee. I wish I could wave a magic wand and make you experience what I do.
- oh_sigh 7y ago
  Have you ever tried cutting caffeine out of your diet?
  - jamesrcole 7y ago
    I’ve had lots of periods (from months to years) in my life with zero caffeine. Including all of my childhood, and I’ve had the sleep problems all my life. Think about what that means for what you’re saying. Yet people like you are so sure it could be the cause or contribute, and that I could never know without cutting it out of my diet. Even aside from what I mentioned above, if you experienced what I experience you would know that it couldn’t possibly influence why I have sleep problems.
- Ididntdothis 7y ago
  I have a lot sympathy for your situation and I am sure you have been worn down by stupid advice from a lot of people. I sometimes have depression and I am tired of advice to “lighten up”. But let me just repeat: I believe that if somebody has sleep problems it’s worth as a first step to try going off caffeine. There is no guarantee but it will help a lot of people but not all.