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I have sleep problems, and it’s to do with muscular/nerve problems, and things like the nerve sensations (mostly not pain) they cause. I’d find it irritating if

I have sleep problems, and it’s to do with muscular/nerve problems, and things like the nerve sensations (mostly not pain) they cause. I’d find it irritating if you told me that, because I’m thoroughly sick of people assuming they know —- and that assumption is very common — what the causes and solutions are when I tell them I have sleep problems.

ebg13 7y ago
Assumptions are common, you're right. I assume that people won't tell you to drink less coffee if you say something specific to your circumstance like "nerve discomfort keeps me awake at night" rather than something vague like "I have trouble sleeping".
- jamesrcole 7y ago
  How is “I have trouble sleeping” vague? It’s quite precise and clear. The _why_ of the sleep problems is separate from the _fact_ of it. Whether the _why_ is suitable to mention is totally context-dependent. In some situations it would make sense to mention the why. In others it would be weird and going into too much detail. And it’s not just nerve discomfort. It’s muscular and there’s all sorts of details that are not easy to describe if I want to actually explain what it is. Finally, you’re assuming that mentioning the reasons would somehow mean people wouldn’t then make assumptions, and this is false. If I mentioned the why they’re likely to assume (I know this from experience) irrelevant causes/cures to do with pain (much of the problem is very different to pain), pillows, mattresses, yoga, etc. I have also found that it does not matter what you tell people the causes are, many will not let go of the idea that the sleep problems must actually be the result of psychological causes, due to being unable to relax, a restless mind, poor sleep hygiene, etc.
- codingdave 7y ago
  The specific details of anyone's medical condition typically isn't anyone's business, nor do they really want to hear it. "I had trouble sleeping last night" is a perfectly acceptable way to describe the impact of a medical condition without getting TMI with people to whom you are not close.
  - FalconSensei 7y ago
    Then just don't mention you have trouble sleeping, as it's not their business, right?
    - codingdave 7y ago
      It is 100% my team's business if my performance is suffering in my job due to my lack of sleep. It just isn't their business the gruesome medical details behind it.
      - ebg13 7y ago
        > It is 100% my team's business if my performance is suffering in my job due to my lack of sleep. It's actually not. It's 100% your team's business that you're underperforming, period, but any reason you give is on your dime. Since you're giving reasons, it is in your personal best interest to communicate to your team a need for reasonable accommodations under the Americans with Disabilities Act even if you don't describe to them the details of your condition.
Ididntdothis 7y ago
I am not saying stopping caffeine is the fix for everybody and I am certainly not trying to take your experience from you. What I am saying is that it’s worth to try this as one of the first steps because it’s easy to do, you can see results quickly and for a lot of people going off caffeine is helpful. It’s like dealing with backpain. Exercise or yoga won’t cure everybody but it’s definitely trying to do that before taking other measures. Or if you are overweight it’s a good first step to look at eating habits. Often better eating habits will help so it’s worth trying as a first step. If that doesn’t help definitely look at other things.
- jamesrcole 7y ago
  > What I am saying is that it’s worth to try this as one of the first steps because it’s easy to do Why should someone try it if it’s abundantly obvious to them from the outset that the causes of their problem are of a different sort, for which this could not possibly help? You’re still assuming that it is something that is potentially relevant to everyone. Put another way, you’re assuming that all sleep problems are of a sort that could potentially be caused/exacerbated by caffeine, and that the person with the problems couldn’t possibly tell that caffeine was irrelevant unless they tried removing it.
  - Ididntdothis 7y ago
    “you’re assuming that all sleep problems are of a sort that could potentially be caused/exacerbated by caffeine, and that the person with the problems couldn’t possibly tell that caffeine was irrelevant unless they tried removing it.” Yes. The keyword is “could” I am not saying “always is”.
    - jamesrcole 7y ago
      “Could” is wrong. For someone like me, I know from the outset the kind of thing that causes the sleep problems. It could not be anything like coffee. I wish I could wave a magic wand and make you experience what I do.

ebg13 7y ago

Assumptions are common, you're right. I assume that people won't tell you to drink less coffee if you say something specific to your circumstance like "nerve discomfort keeps me awake at night" rather than something vague like "I have trouble sleeping".

jamesrcole 7y ago
How is “I have trouble sleeping” vague? It’s quite precise and clear. The _why_ of the sleep problems is separate from the _fact_ of it. Whether the _why_ is suitable to mention is totally context-dependent. In some situations it would make sense to mention the why. In others it would be weird and going into too much detail. And it’s not just nerve discomfort. It’s muscular and there’s all sorts of details that are not easy to describe if I want to actually explain what it is. Finally, you’re assuming that mentioning the reasons would somehow mean people wouldn’t then make assumptions, and this is false. If I mentioned the why they’re likely to assume (I know this from experience) irrelevant causes/cures to do with pain (much of the problem is very different to pain), pillows, mattresses, yoga, etc. I have also found that it does not matter what you tell people the causes are, many will not let go of the idea that the sleep problems must actually be the result of psychological causes, due to being unable to relax, a restless mind, poor sleep hygiene, etc.
codingdave 7y ago
The specific details of anyone's medical condition typically isn't anyone's business, nor do they really want to hear it. "I had trouble sleeping last night" is a perfectly acceptable way to describe the impact of a medical condition without getting TMI with people to whom you are not close.
- FalconSensei 7y ago
  Then just don't mention you have trouble sleeping, as it's not their business, right?
  - codingdave 7y ago
    It is 100% my team's business if my performance is suffering in my job due to my lack of sleep. It just isn't their business the gruesome medical details behind it.
    - ebg13 7y ago
      > It is 100% my team's business if my performance is suffering in my job due to my lack of sleep. It's actually not. It's 100% your team's business that you're underperforming, period, but any reason you give is on your dime. Since you're giving reasons, it is in your personal best interest to communicate to your team a need for reasonable accommodations under the Americans with Disabilities Act even if you don't describe to them the details of your condition.

Ididntdothis 7y ago

I am not saying stopping caffeine is the fix for everybody and I am certainly not trying to take your experience from you. What I am saying is that it’s worth to try this as one of the first steps because it’s easy to do, you can see results quickly and for a lot of people going off caffeine is helpful. It’s like dealing with backpain. Exercise or yoga won’t cure everybody but it’s definitely trying to do that before taking other measures. Or if you are overweight it’s a good first step to look at eating habits. Often better eating habits will help so it’s worth trying as a first step. If that doesn’t help definitely look at other things.

jamesrcole 7y ago
> What I am saying is that it’s worth to try this as one of the first steps because it’s easy to do Why should someone try it if it’s abundantly obvious to them from the outset that the causes of their problem are of a different sort, for which this could not possibly help? You’re still assuming that it is something that is potentially relevant to everyone. Put another way, you’re assuming that all sleep problems are of a sort that could potentially be caused/exacerbated by caffeine, and that the person with the problems couldn’t possibly tell that caffeine was irrelevant unless they tried removing it.
- Ididntdothis 7y ago
  “you’re assuming that all sleep problems are of a sort that could potentially be caused/exacerbated by caffeine, and that the person with the problems couldn’t possibly tell that caffeine was irrelevant unless they tried removing it.” Yes. The keyword is “could” I am not saying “always is”.
  - jamesrcole 7y ago
    “Could” is wrong. For someone like me, I know from the outset the kind of thing that causes the sleep problems. It could not be anything like coffee. I wish I could wave a magic wand and make you experience what I do.