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#4 on the list is taking sleeping pills. In a comment thread somewhere else, the author also said she stopped consuming caffeine, which is notably dismissed in

by ebg13 7y ago

#4 on the list is taking sleeping pills. In a comment thread somewhere else, the author also said she stopped consuming caffeine, which is notably dismissed in this list. I need HN to start accepting eyeroll emojis in comments.

codingdave 7y ago
It was not dismissed, she specifically called it out as a common tip early in the article, then said: "While some of these things helped me sleep better, there are also several tips that I often don’t see that helped me fix my insomnia. This article is devoted to those."
- ebg13 7y ago
  "I removed stimulants and added sleep drugs, but let's ignore those for now and focus on thinking positively" is seriously burying the lede.
Ididntdothis 7y ago
In my view stopping caffeine should be the first thing to do if you have sleep problems. But somehow even mentioning this seems offensive to people.
- jamesrcole 7y ago
  I have sleep problems, and it’s to do with muscular/nerve problems, and things like the nerve sensations (mostly not pain) they cause. I’d find it irritating if you told me that, because I’m thoroughly sick of people assuming they know —- and that assumption is very common — what the causes and solutions are when I tell them I have sleep problems.
  - ebg13 7y ago
    Assumptions are common, you're right. I assume that people won't tell you to drink less coffee if you say something specific to your circumstance like "nerve discomfort keeps me awake at night" rather than something vague like "I have trouble sleeping".
    - jamesrcole 7y ago
      How is “I have trouble sleeping” vague? It’s quite precise and clear. The _why_ of the sleep problems is separate from the _fact_ of it. Whether the _why_ is suitable to mention is totally context-dependent. In some situations it would make sense to mention the why. In others it would be weird and going into too much detail. And it’s not just nerve discomfort. It’s muscular and there’s all sorts of details that are not easy to describe if I want to actually explain what it is. Finally, you’re assuming that mentioning the reasons would somehow mean people wouldn’t then make assumptions, and this is false. If I mentioned the why they’re likely to assume (I know this from experience) irrelevant causes/cures to do with pain (much of the problem is very different to pain), pillows, mattresses, yoga, etc. I have also found that it does not matter what you tell people the causes are, many will not let go of the idea that the sleep problems must actually be the result of psychological causes, due to being unable to relax, a restless mind, poor sleep hygiene, etc.
    - codingdave 7y ago
      The specific details of anyone's medical condition typically isn't anyone's business, nor do they really want to hear it. "I had trouble sleeping last night" is a perfectly acceptable way to describe the impact of a medical condition without getting TMI with people to whom you are not close.
      - FalconSensei 7y ago
        Then just don't mention you have trouble sleeping, as it's not their business, right?
        codingdave 7y ago
        It is 100% my team's business if my performance is suffering in my job due to my lack of sleep. It just isn't their business the gruesome medical details behind it.
        ebg13 7y ago
        > It is 100% my team's business if my performance is suffering in my job due to my lack of sleep. It's actually not. It's 100% your team's business that you're underperforming, period, but any reason you give is on your dime. Since you're giving reasons, it is in your personal best interest to communicate to your team a need for reasonable accommodations under the Americans with Disabilities Act even if you don't describe to them the details of your condition.
  - Ididntdothis 7y ago
    I am not saying stopping caffeine is the fix for everybody and I am certainly not trying to take your experience from you. What I am saying is that it’s worth to try this as one of the first steps because it’s easy to do, you can see results quickly and for a lot of people going off caffeine is helpful. It’s like dealing with backpain. Exercise or yoga won’t cure everybody but it’s definitely trying to do that before taking other measures. Or if you are overweight it’s a good first step to look at eating habits. Often better eating habits will help so it’s worth trying as a first step. If that doesn’t help definitely look at other things.
    - jamesrcole 7y ago
      > What I am saying is that it’s worth to try this as one of the first steps because it’s easy to do Why should someone try it if it’s abundantly obvious to them from the outset that the causes of their problem are of a different sort, for which this could not possibly help? You’re still assuming that it is something that is potentially relevant to everyone. Put another way, you’re assuming that all sleep problems are of a sort that could potentially be caused/exacerbated by caffeine, and that the person with the problems couldn’t possibly tell that caffeine was irrelevant unless they tried removing it.
      - Ididntdothis 7y ago
        “you’re assuming that all sleep problems are of a sort that could potentially be caused/exacerbated by caffeine, and that the person with the problems couldn’t possibly tell that caffeine was irrelevant unless they tried removing it.” Yes. The keyword is “could” I am not saying “always is”.
        jamesrcole 7y ago
        “Could” is wrong. For someone like me, I know from the outset the kind of thing that causes the sleep problems. It could not be anything like coffee. I wish I could wave a magic wand and make you experience what I do.
- chuniverse 7y ago
  I concur. Common wisdom is to not consume caffeine after noon, but quitting it entirely has been a life changer. I essentially had to brainwash myself that I have a chemical intolerance to caffeine whenever the opportunity comes up. Now a lot of times even when I think I’m not tired or my mind is racing, I’m still snoozing ten minutes after my head hits the pillow
  - Ididntdothis 7y ago
    ”Common wisdom is to not consume caffeine after noon,” I can feel caffeine impacting my sleep and mood for days.
themodelplumber 7y ago
Some people have no problem with caffeine and sleep though. They'll even have a coffee shortly before bed, or an energy drink after dinner. It's not a universal rule that caffeine disrupts sleep.
- ebg13 7y ago
  > Some people have no problem with caffeine and sleep though. True fact #1: all bodies are different. True fact #2: caffeine is a CNS stimulant. True fact #3: even if some people have no problem with caffeine and sleep, many do. The author acknowledges being sensitive to caffeine.
- tgv 7y ago
  Indeed, I used to drink coffee until rather late and sleep well. 20 years ago, I started ti limit myself to 3 cups per day, and now drinking coffee at night keeps me awake (I think; never bothered to experiment thoroughly to find out). Age may have an influence, as might habituation.
  - Ididntdothis 7y ago
    Age is definitely a factor. In my 20s I could drink liters of coffee any time without problems. Now even one cup is having significant impact on me. I have heard the same from other people.

by ebg13 7y ago

codingdave 7y ago

It was not dismissed, she specifically called it out as a common tip early in the article, then said: "While some of these things helped me sleep better, there are also several tips that I often don’t see that helped me fix my insomnia. This article is devoted to those."

ebg13 7y ago
"I removed stimulants and added sleep drugs, but let's ignore those for now and focus on thinking positively" is seriously burying the lede.

Ididntdothis 7y ago

In my view stopping caffeine should be the first thing to do if you have sleep problems. But somehow even mentioning this seems offensive to people.

jamesrcole 7y ago
I have sleep problems, and it’s to do with muscular/nerve problems, and things like the nerve sensations (mostly not pain) they cause. I’d find it irritating if you told me that, because I’m thoroughly sick of people assuming they know —- and that assumption is very common — what the causes and solutions are when I tell them I have sleep problems.
- ebg13 7y ago
  Assumptions are common, you're right. I assume that people won't tell you to drink less coffee if you say something specific to your circumstance like "nerve discomfort keeps me awake at night" rather than something vague like "I have trouble sleeping".
  - jamesrcole 7y ago
    How is “I have trouble sleeping” vague? It’s quite precise and clear. The _why_ of the sleep problems is separate from the _fact_ of it. Whether the _why_ is suitable to mention is totally context-dependent. In some situations it would make sense to mention the why. In others it would be weird and going into too much detail. And it’s not just nerve discomfort. It’s muscular and there’s all sorts of details that are not easy to describe if I want to actually explain what it is. Finally, you’re assuming that mentioning the reasons would somehow mean people wouldn’t then make assumptions, and this is false. If I mentioned the why they’re likely to assume (I know this from experience) irrelevant causes/cures to do with pain (much of the problem is very different to pain), pillows, mattresses, yoga, etc. I have also found that it does not matter what you tell people the causes are, many will not let go of the idea that the sleep problems must actually be the result of psychological causes, due to being unable to relax, a restless mind, poor sleep hygiene, etc.
  - codingdave 7y ago
    The specific details of anyone's medical condition typically isn't anyone's business, nor do they really want to hear it. "I had trouble sleeping last night" is a perfectly acceptable way to describe the impact of a medical condition without getting TMI with people to whom you are not close.
    - FalconSensei 7y ago
      Then just don't mention you have trouble sleeping, as it's not their business, right?
      - codingdave 7y ago
        It is 100% my team's business if my performance is suffering in my job due to my lack of sleep. It just isn't their business the gruesome medical details behind it.
        ebg13 7y ago
        > It is 100% my team's business if my performance is suffering in my job due to my lack of sleep. It's actually not. It's 100% your team's business that you're underperforming, period, but any reason you give is on your dime. Since you're giving reasons, it is in your personal best interest to communicate to your team a need for reasonable accommodations under the Americans with Disabilities Act even if you don't describe to them the details of your condition.
- Ididntdothis 7y ago
  I am not saying stopping caffeine is the fix for everybody and I am certainly not trying to take your experience from you. What I am saying is that it’s worth to try this as one of the first steps because it’s easy to do, you can see results quickly and for a lot of people going off caffeine is helpful. It’s like dealing with backpain. Exercise or yoga won’t cure everybody but it’s definitely trying to do that before taking other measures. Or if you are overweight it’s a good first step to look at eating habits. Often better eating habits will help so it’s worth trying as a first step. If that doesn’t help definitely look at other things.
  - jamesrcole 7y ago
    > What I am saying is that it’s worth to try this as one of the first steps because it’s easy to do Why should someone try it if it’s abundantly obvious to them from the outset that the causes of their problem are of a different sort, for which this could not possibly help? You’re still assuming that it is something that is potentially relevant to everyone. Put another way, you’re assuming that all sleep problems are of a sort that could potentially be caused/exacerbated by caffeine, and that the person with the problems couldn’t possibly tell that caffeine was irrelevant unless they tried removing it.
    - Ididntdothis 7y ago
      “you’re assuming that all sleep problems are of a sort that could potentially be caused/exacerbated by caffeine, and that the person with the problems couldn’t possibly tell that caffeine was irrelevant unless they tried removing it.” Yes. The keyword is “could” I am not saying “always is”.
      - jamesrcole 7y ago
        “Could” is wrong. For someone like me, I know from the outset the kind of thing that causes the sleep problems. It could not be anything like coffee. I wish I could wave a magic wand and make you experience what I do.
chuniverse 7y ago
I concur. Common wisdom is to not consume caffeine after noon, but quitting it entirely has been a life changer. I essentially had to brainwash myself that I have a chemical intolerance to caffeine whenever the opportunity comes up. Now a lot of times even when I think I’m not tired or my mind is racing, I’m still snoozing ten minutes after my head hits the pillow
- Ididntdothis 7y ago
  ”Common wisdom is to not consume caffeine after noon,” I can feel caffeine impacting my sleep and mood for days.

themodelplumber 7y ago

Some people have no problem with caffeine and sleep though. They'll even have a coffee shortly before bed, or an energy drink after dinner. It's not a universal rule that caffeine disrupts sleep.

ebg13 7y ago
> Some people have no problem with caffeine and sleep though. True fact #1: all bodies are different. True fact #2: caffeine is a CNS stimulant. True fact #3: even if some people have no problem with caffeine and sleep, many do. The author acknowledges being sensitive to caffeine.
tgv 7y ago
Indeed, I used to drink coffee until rather late and sleep well. 20 years ago, I started ti limit myself to 3 cups per day, and now drinking coffee at night keeps me awake (I think; never bothered to experiment thoroughly to find out). Age may have an influence, as might habituation.
- Ididntdothis 7y ago
  Age is definitely a factor. In my 20s I could drink liters of coffee any time without problems. Now even one cup is having significant impact on me. I have heard the same from other people.