4 ms·

The UTC offset would be zero if you used UTC since it's UTC.

dntbnmpls 7y ago
Yes I know. But the problem isn't what the UTC is, everyone knows what it is. The problem is what the time is. What time zone does north pole belong to, aka what is the time at the north pole? A UTC value of X has many times associated with it. Given the same UTC, the time could be 3 PM in NYC and 4 AM in Tokyo the next day. Saying use the UTC without providing a offset is pretty much meaningless. Imagine if you asked me, "what time is it where you are" and I responded with the UTC. You'd have no idea what time it was where I'm at. UTC offset zero ( london ) doesn't make sense because the north pole also encompasses other longitudes and other times zones. Why not use the other time zones since they are just as equally valid or invalid as london? Logically, asking for the time at the north pole is as absurd as asking someone to point north at the north pole. It doesn't make sense. It's only when you take a step away from the north pole that you can answer "what is the time" and "which way is north". At the north pole, there is no "north" anymore and there is no "time". Saying use UTC is meaningless, but looking at the downvotes, it's abundantly clear people either don't understand what UTC is or they missed my point completely.
- excalibur 7y ago
  The suggestion is that they would all agree on UTC 0 not because it's their current time zone, but just for ease of coordination. They could choose any time zone for this purpose if they all agreed on it, GMT just happens to be the most universally recognized and least biased option.
  - jwandborg 7y ago
    Strictly, GMT is not the same as UTC. Ironically, GMT is often used as a synonym for UTC by English speakers (the English bias being the irony).
  - dntbnmpls 7y ago
    > The suggestion is that they would all agree on UTC 0 not because it's their current time zone, but just for ease of coordination. That wasn't the suggestion at all. The parent used words he doesn't understand. He has no idea what UTC is, just like you. And rather than reading the article, learning about UTC and trying to understand the issue, people with a superficial understanding just downvote and comment nonsense. UTC is like floating point numbers, people who just superficially come across it think they know what it is but when they talk about it, you can clearly tell they had no idea what it really is. I've done my best. Can lead a horse to water but can't force him to drink it.
    - excalibur 7y ago
      > That wasn't the suggestion at all. It was clearly the poster's intent, regardless of whether they articulated it to your satisfaction. You can have your pedantic victory about the definition of UTC. Enjoy. And stay safe.
- JdeBP 7y ago
  Alright, I'll imagine. Me: "What time is it where you are?" You: "It is 18:45 UTC." I'm afraid that I do actually now know what time it is where you are, to the nearest minute at any rate. Nothing about your being at the (geographic) North Pole has impeded me in the slightest. Given that my telepathy is on the blink again today and yet I have managed to ascertain what time it is where you are from you, something must be wrong with your model of how one asks the time. Try SNTP; it's simpler. (-:
  - dntbnmpls 7y ago
    > I'm afraid that I do actually now know what time it is where you are, to the nearest minute at any rate. 23:07:57 UTC What time is it for me? Should I be preparing for bed or getting ready for breakfast? Am I in NYC or London or Tokyo? > Nothing about your being at the (geographic) North Pole has impeded me in the slightest. Who says I'm at the north pole? > yet I have managed to ascertain what time it is where you are from you Oh, you mean you need to know my location/time zone/offset? That's my point genius. UTC doesn't tell you the time. UTC + offset tells you the time.

Yes I know. But the problem isn't what the UTC is, everyone knows what it is. The problem is what the time is. What time zone does north pole belong to, aka what is the time at the north pole? A UTC value of X has many times associated with it. Given the same UTC, the time could be 3 PM in NYC and 4 AM in Tokyo the next day. Saying use the UTC without providing a offset is pretty much meaningless. Imagine if you asked me, "what time is it where you are" and I responded with the UTC. You'd have no idea what time it was where I'm at. UTC offset zero ( london ) doesn't make sense because the north pole also encompasses other longitudes and other times zones. Why not use the other time zones since they are just as equally valid or invalid as london? Logically, asking for the time at the north pole is as absurd as asking someone to point north at the north pole. It doesn't make sense. It's only when you take a step away from the north pole that you can answer "what is the time" and "which way is north". At the north pole, there is no "north" anymore and there is no "time". Saying use UTC is meaningless, but looking at the downvotes, it's abundantly clear people either don't understand what UTC is or they missed my point completely.

excalibur 7y ago
The suggestion is that they would all agree on UTC 0 not because it's their current time zone, but just for ease of coordination. They could choose any time zone for this purpose if they all agreed on it, GMT just happens to be the most universally recognized and least biased option.
- jwandborg 7y ago
  Strictly, GMT is not the same as UTC. Ironically, GMT is often used as a synonym for UTC by English speakers (the English bias being the irony).
- dntbnmpls 7y ago
  > The suggestion is that they would all agree on UTC 0 not because it's their current time zone, but just for ease of coordination. That wasn't the suggestion at all. The parent used words he doesn't understand. He has no idea what UTC is, just like you. And rather than reading the article, learning about UTC and trying to understand the issue, people with a superficial understanding just downvote and comment nonsense. UTC is like floating point numbers, people who just superficially come across it think they know what it is but when they talk about it, you can clearly tell they had no idea what it really is. I've done my best. Can lead a horse to water but can't force him to drink it.
  - excalibur 7y ago
    > That wasn't the suggestion at all. It was clearly the poster's intent, regardless of whether they articulated it to your satisfaction. You can have your pedantic victory about the definition of UTC. Enjoy. And stay safe.
JdeBP 7y ago
Alright, I'll imagine. Me: "What time is it where you are?" You: "It is 18:45 UTC." I'm afraid that I do actually now know what time it is where you are, to the nearest minute at any rate. Nothing about your being at the (geographic) North Pole has impeded me in the slightest. Given that my telepathy is on the blink again today and yet I have managed to ascertain what time it is where you are from you, something must be wrong with your model of how one asks the time. Try SNTP; it's simpler. (-:
- dntbnmpls 7y ago
  > I'm afraid that I do actually now know what time it is where you are, to the nearest minute at any rate. 23:07:57 UTC What time is it for me? Should I be preparing for bed or getting ready for breakfast? Am I in NYC or London or Tokyo? > Nothing about your being at the (geographic) North Pole has impeded me in the slightest. Who says I'm at the north pole? > yet I have managed to ascertain what time it is where you are from you Oh, you mean you need to know my location/time zone/offset? That's my point genius. UTC doesn't tell you the time. UTC + offset tells you the time.