5 ms·

How to draw viewers into Web Video - lessons from porn

86 points by thenomad 16y ago

radioactive21 16y ago
I am pretty sure Porn as an advantage in one aspect. People went out of their way to seek it. In a aroused state, it wouldn't matter what you're watching, it could be someone just running a hand over their other hand and you'll get viewers, it's just enough to get off on.
- thenomad 16y ago
  Ah, but these days, as a porn site you've got to compete with thousands of others. It's not "will the audience look for porn", it's "Why will they choose your porn over someone else's?" (Likewise, it's not "Will the audience look for an action-adventure show", it's "Why should the audience choose YOUR action-adventure show?")
  - chopsueyar 16y ago
    That site caters to a specific fetish, female domination. There are not thousands of sites competing with it. Most successful porn sites cater to a specific fetish, instead of a bucket of random porn. He needs to find his target market. Not sure who it should be, though.
    - Unseelie 16y ago
      Please google your tagword. Better yet, google Female domination Porn. You're going to get a lot. If you go out and use the actual jargon, Femdom Porn, you're going to get quite a lot as well. Point being: there may not be thousands of sites competing, but when the search returns over a million sites and its nearly straight femdom out to the thirteenth results page (and likely beyond)...I'm going to wager that you didn't do that very simple bit of research, a google, before making such a declaration.
      - chopsueyar 16y ago
        "hacker news porn" returns over 286,000 results... As you yourself said, the actual jargon is "femdom porn", not "female domination porn", or even simply "femdom". By adding "porn" to any keyword search, you will get many extraneous results (see "hacker news porn" above). Most importantly, these "alot of results" all have affiliate banners to the same handful of "femdom" sites. Next time, try looking at the actual content, not just the Google results. I should have taken you up on your wager!
        Unseelie 16y ago
        Femdom being one of my fetishes, I rather beg to differ on the statement that there are only a handful of femdom sites. I will cede that there are a few fantastically successful ones, like I suspect in most media, which are rather strongly linked to...
AlexC04 16y ago
I've never heard of Guerilla Show Runner before - but really like the site. Thanks to whoever posted this. I've picked up the RSS feed.
CoffeeDregs 16y ago
This is a bit harsh, but, based on the author's site design and the design of his other sites, I'm not sure why we should take the author seriously.
- TheSOB88 16y ago
  Because he's reviewing another site, he calls himself a moron in light of the lessons he learned from it, and the ideas make sense.
- thenomad 16y ago
  That's completely reasonable. I'm not a professional designer by any means. I'd say that the primary test should be how much sense the points in the article make to you. Having said that, if you want some proof of authority, I have a fair track record in Web shows - I founded Machinima.com, was the exec producer on BloodSpell and Kamikaze Cookery, have produced Machinima work for the BBC, EA, etca, and generally have been doing it professionally for 13 years. I ain't Jakob Neilsen, but I know one end of selling a web show from the other.
- kingsidharth 16y ago
  What's wrong with his site, again? It was more distraction free and readable than, say, Mashable and they pay lot sum to designers. It wasn't decorated but it was well designed. Edit: Formatting
  - peng 16y ago
    This the site he designed: http://www.kamikazecookery.com/ http://www.kamikazecookery.com/ The blog that's linked uses a popular Wordpress theme.
- JonLim 16y ago
  I honestly don't think it's harsh - his websites for his shows are groin-grabbingly ugly, and it should be no surprise to him as to why they do not attract viewers. Want to pull people in to your video content? Look at some of the better video sites on the web and see how they do it. I can think of one off the top of my head: http://epicmealtime.com/ http://epicmealtime.com/
Vlasta 16y ago
After reading the article, I am not convinced, we should copy the techniques employed by porn sites when building all "ordinary" sites. On a porn site, the content variability is low - it is easy to pick one video, promote it, and it would probably satisfy all viewers to some degree. On a normal site, each user wants something else and pushing one video may annoy 90% of viewers, because it is not what they are looking for. On a less emotional and more informative site, you have to be less pushy.
- thenomad 16y ago
  I agree, this technique is definitely not for all sites. I'm specifically talking about web series, where there are usually some fairly obvious entry points. For a bigger content aggregation site or similar, you'd need another approach.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
dotBen 16y ago
I know a lot of the people at Kink.com (they're a solid part of the local SF tech scene, regardless of what people think of the content) and they have some interesting technology across the board. However I wouldn't actually use their websites as good examples of best-practice in this vertical. Having disrupted the traditional DVD-based content houses, Kink.com is now getting disrupted themselves a little by the 'tube sites' and they really are not on top of this new era for that industry. The main issue for video sites - of all content genres - is discovery. The author's premis about 'drawing in the viewer' doesn't really allude to this greater issue. YouTube doesn't really do a great job of discovery - relying only similarity clustering and string search. I'm not going to link to sites from here, but there are a number of adult content tube sites that have some really quite excellent taxonomy, categorization and deeper search functions - surfacing the content that each viewer wants is a unique experience for each person. Many of their video player experiences and social features are excellent too - ones that YouTube should really take a look at (in fact I know of YouTubers who gone to work for these sites). For me, the tube world is yet another example of where the adult website industry is once again leading the R&D in the space.
- davidmathers 16y ago
  there are a number of adult content tube sites that have some really quite excellent taxonomy, categorization and deeper search functions - surfacing the content that each viewer wants is a unique experience for each person Many of their video player experiences and social features are excellent too Please name names.
  - dotBen 16y ago
    Responding to this cos it got a high vote... I don't feel comfortable linking to such sites on Hacker News or really talking about them here in any more depth. Feel free to contact me offline from HN if you want me to suggest some leading examples. (details in my profile) UPDATE: turns out the original author discovered all of these sites via my partner Violet Blue (http://guerillashowrunner.com/2011/02/why-a-good-porn-site-makes-our-web-show-pages-look-like-amateurish-crap/#comment-293 http://guerillashowrunner.com/2011/02/why-a-good-porn-site-m...) -- so the circle is complete. Lol.
nickl 16y ago
Basically: Put something interesting on the landing page.
- jamongkad 16y ago
  I think the rabbit hole goes a little deeper than that don't you think?

86 points by thenomad 16y ago

I am pretty sure Porn as an advantage in one aspect. People went out of their way to seek it. In a aroused state, it wouldn't matter what you're watching, it could be someone just running a hand over their other hand and you'll get viewers, it's just enough to get off on.

thenomad 16y ago
Ah, but these days, as a porn site you've got to compete with thousands of others. It's not "will the audience look for porn", it's "Why will they choose your porn over someone else's?" (Likewise, it's not "Will the audience look for an action-adventure show", it's "Why should the audience choose YOUR action-adventure show?")
- chopsueyar 16y ago
  That site caters to a specific fetish, female domination. There are not thousands of sites competing with it. Most successful porn sites cater to a specific fetish, instead of a bucket of random porn. He needs to find his target market. Not sure who it should be, though.
  - Unseelie 16y ago
    Please google your tagword. Better yet, google Female domination Porn. You're going to get a lot. If you go out and use the actual jargon, Femdom Porn, you're going to get quite a lot as well. Point being: there may not be thousands of sites competing, but when the search returns over a million sites and its nearly straight femdom out to the thirteenth results page (and likely beyond)...I'm going to wager that you didn't do that very simple bit of research, a google, before making such a declaration.
    - chopsueyar 16y ago
      "hacker news porn" returns over 286,000 results... As you yourself said, the actual jargon is "femdom porn", not "female domination porn", or even simply "femdom". By adding "porn" to any keyword search, you will get many extraneous results (see "hacker news porn" above). Most importantly, these "alot of results" all have affiliate banners to the same handful of "femdom" sites. Next time, try looking at the actual content, not just the Google results. I should have taken you up on your wager!
      - Unseelie 16y ago
        Femdom being one of my fetishes, I rather beg to differ on the statement that there are only a handful of femdom sites. I will cede that there are a few fantastically successful ones, like I suspect in most media, which are rather strongly linked to...

AlexC04 16y ago

I've never heard of Guerilla Show Runner before - but really like the site. Thanks to whoever posted this. I've picked up the RSS feed.

CoffeeDregs 16y ago

This is a bit harsh, but, based on the author's site design and the design of his other sites, I'm not sure why we should take the author seriously.

TheSOB88 16y ago
Because he's reviewing another site, he calls himself a moron in light of the lessons he learned from it, and the ideas make sense.
thenomad 16y ago
That's completely reasonable. I'm not a professional designer by any means. I'd say that the primary test should be how much sense the points in the article make to you. Having said that, if you want some proof of authority, I have a fair track record in Web shows - I founded Machinima.com, was the exec producer on BloodSpell and Kamikaze Cookery, have produced Machinima work for the BBC, EA, etca, and generally have been doing it professionally for 13 years. I ain't Jakob Neilsen, but I know one end of selling a web show from the other.
kingsidharth 16y ago
What's wrong with his site, again? It was more distraction free and readable than, say, Mashable and they pay lot sum to designers. It wasn't decorated but it was well designed. Edit: Formatting
- peng 16y ago
  This the site he designed: http://www.kamikazecookery.com/ http://www.kamikazecookery.com/ The blog that's linked uses a popular Wordpress theme.
JonLim 16y ago
I honestly don't think it's harsh - his websites for his shows are groin-grabbingly ugly, and it should be no surprise to him as to why they do not attract viewers. Want to pull people in to your video content? Look at some of the better video sites on the web and see how they do it. I can think of one off the top of my head: http://epicmealtime.com/ http://epicmealtime.com/

Vlasta 16y ago

After reading the article, I am not convinced, we should copy the techniques employed by porn sites when building all "ordinary" sites. On a porn site, the content variability is low - it is easy to pick one video, promote it, and it would probably satisfy all viewers to some degree. On a normal site, each user wants something else and pushing one video may annoy 90% of viewers, because it is not what they are looking for. On a less emotional and more informative site, you have to be less pushy.

thenomad 16y ago
I agree, this technique is definitely not for all sites. I'm specifically talking about web series, where there are usually some fairly obvious entry points. For a bigger content aggregation site or similar, you'd need another approach.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]

dotBen 16y ago

I know a lot of the people at Kink.com (they're a solid part of the local SF tech scene, regardless of what people think of the content) and they have some interesting technology across the board. However I wouldn't actually use their websites as good examples of best-practice in this vertical. Having disrupted the traditional DVD-based content houses, Kink.com is now getting disrupted themselves a little by the 'tube sites' and they really are not on top of this new era for that industry. The main issue for video sites - of all content genres - is discovery. The author's premis about 'drawing in the viewer' doesn't really allude to this greater issue. YouTube doesn't really do a great job of discovery - relying only similarity clustering and string search. I'm not going to link to sites from here, but there are a number of adult content tube sites that have some really quite excellent taxonomy, categorization and deeper search functions - surfacing the content that each viewer wants is a unique experience for each person. Many of their video player experiences and social features are excellent too - ones that YouTube should really take a look at (in fact I know of YouTubers who gone to work for these sites). For me, the tube world is yet another example of where the adult website industry is once again leading the R&D in the space.

davidmathers 16y ago
there are a number of adult content tube sites that have some really quite excellent taxonomy, categorization and deeper search functions - surfacing the content that each viewer wants is a unique experience for each person Many of their video player experiences and social features are excellent too Please name names.
- dotBen 16y ago
  Responding to this cos it got a high vote... I don't feel comfortable linking to such sites on Hacker News or really talking about them here in any more depth. Feel free to contact me offline from HN if you want me to suggest some leading examples. (details in my profile) UPDATE: turns out the original author discovered all of these sites via my partner Violet Blue (http://guerillashowrunner.com/2011/02/why-a-good-porn-site-makes-our-web-show-pages-look-like-amateurish-crap/#comment-293 http://guerillashowrunner.com/2011/02/why-a-good-porn-site-m...) -- so the circle is complete. Lol.

nickl 16y ago

Basically: Put something interesting on the landing page.

jamongkad 16y ago
I think the rabbit hole goes a little deeper than that don't you think?