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Elon Musk does not owe people anything. If he decides to produce them, that's fine, but he doesn't have to. But the governments should buy these ventilators fr
by lightgreen 7y ago
Elon Musk does not owe people anything. If he decides to produce them, that's fine, but he doesn't have to.
But the governments should buy these ventilators from private companies, so private companies like Tesla or GM were incentivized to produce these ventilators.
Edit: added and then removed a comment about downvotes
- ocdtrekkie 7y agoThe point is not whether or not Musk owes it to anyone. But that some people claim to be making the world a better place, and others batten down and actually do make the world a better place. And usually the latter is a lot less glamorous than the former.
- lightgreen 7y agoMaking the ventilators is not the only way to make world a better place. I consider my daytime job making the world a better place even in these dark days. But I don't work at ventilators factoy (or in hospital, or in anything directly related to coronavirus). (Edit: clarification; cleanup)
- dmix 7y agoTalking about downvoting is very taboo on HN. It's in the FAQ/guidelines. Relax, I've had countless comments start off downvoted then turn into +30 by the end of the day. It's a silly thing to get upset about, as long as you originally commented with earnest intentions there's nothing to worry about (even being wrong, if misunderstood then try harder next time to communicate it better).
- lightgreen 7y agoI have not found it in the FAQ/guidelines, but anyway, I have removed these notes. Thanks!
- dmix 7y ago> Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- vvanders 7y agoYeah, I'm as big of a Tesla fan as you'll find but the lack of closing the factory in one of the epicenters has really lowered my opinion of his leadership. While I understand he's one to zig when everyone zags I feel like this will be a case where it will become clear that it was a bad call.
- lightgreen 7y agoI guess people at the factory do few close contacts which can lead to virus transmission. And I guess they are supplied with hand sanitizers and handwashing is mandatory. On the other hand, people get paid, the factory is saved from bankruptcy so people can continue working in the factory even after the end of the outbreak. I'm not sure that closing the factory is a universally good decision for society. Edit: English
- vvanders 7y agoConsidering that the virus can live for up to 9 days on metal, glass or plastic[1] I'm not sure that mandatory hand washing is going to do much in an assembly line where everyone interacts directly vehicles on the line. [1] https://www.journalofhospitalinfection.com/article/S0195-6701(20)30046-3/fulltext https://www.journalofhospitalinfection.com/article/S0195-670...
- lightgreen 7y agoI think they work in gloves (https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/6/26/18744304/ceo-pay-ratio-disclosure-2018 https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/6/26/18744304/c... for the picture).
- frank2 7y agoa factory full of people using gloves and alcohol sanitizers will spread the virus unless the people are trained and experienced in sterile technique.
- manigandham 7y agoLet's be fair, Elon has had plenty of accomplishments in "making the world a better place". I don't see the point of all this concentrated attention on one person as if he's the savior to every problem.
- kevingadd 7y agoCite some examples?
- manigandham 7y agoAdvancements in electric transportation, solar power and battery technology for a cleaner and more sustainable energy grid. Efficient access to space leading to more commercial development including cheap worldwide broadband. 2 major corporations creating thousands of jobs and billions in market value.
- ArnoVW 7y ago- introduced easy payment decades ago (PayPal) - reduced the cost of launching satellites significantly - has made electric cars 'cool' - by doing this has inspired people to take risks and be visionary Don't get me wrong, he's certainly got his flaws, and Tesla has it's challednges cut out for them. But you have to credit him: he's made his dent, and is working on further dents as we speak.
- rpedela 7y agoNo one is saying Musk owes people or has to do it. No one.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- lightgreen 7y agoParent comment says Musk "should".
- rpedela 7y agoShould != Must
- hdjejdjd 7y agoLOL and you make comments about virtue signaling what a joke.
- MichaelApproved 7y ago> if you decided to downvote, please at least explain why. Because I don't believe lefts conquered the HN. I downvoted because you assumed it was the “lefts” who were downvoting you.
- lightgreen 7y agoWell, at least thank you for the explanation!
- jholman 7y agoI'll downvote any comment that complains about downvotes. I didn't get to yours before you edited it, so no downvote from me.
- worthless-trash 7y agoTbh, I only ever see up arrows beside a comment, Today I learned downvoting is possible. What are the conditions on being able to downvote ?
- JCharante 7y ago500 >= karma I think
- worthless-trash 7y agoThanks for your honesty, This barrier to entry just convinced me to consider looking elsewhere for moderated comments. If there is such a high bar to moderation it pretty much means that only those with the best 'crowd appeal' will get this, and these are not the people that I consider worth listening to in most circumstances.
- creddit 7y agoThere's an idea of civic and social duty. The basic idea is that when one's society faces an existential crisis then those in that society with the means to help have a duty to do so. This is because the society in which they exist has provided them with a social structure that has, ideally, provided them with stability, some amount of prosperity, etc. It seems some people don't believe in this. It's sad. This isn't about "lefts". It's about people who view their society as facing an existential crisis and believing that everyone in the society should respond to their duty. This duty may be as simple as social distancing but for those with productive means, it may mean working on vaccines, producing face masks, producing sanitary supplies, supplying food, etc.
- lightgreen 7y agoMay I add a controversial comment again please? It will be downvoted again, sadly, I'll create a new account after this thread. People who say that Musk should use all his resources to help society, usually do nothing themselves (I'm not speaking about you personally). It's pure virtue signalling. Elon musk can loose 10% of his money switching from producing Teslas to producing ventilators. But everyone can use their 10% of time to help homeless, care for elders. Or at least donate 10% of their income to coronavirus charities. But somehow people think that Musk has to spend his resoures, but they don't have to. That's not fair.
- creddit 7y agoThere's nothing controversial about saying some people demand from others that which they won't give themselves. The point, though, as I made in my response to yours, is that people's duty will vary by their means. Some people won't be able to do anything more in this case to help society than simple sheltering in place, some may just be able to donate a few dollars here and there but some people have the ability, because they own the capital, to make outsized impacts. That said, it is classic whataboutism in this context. That some demand more than they will give doesn't absolve someone of their civic duty in an existential crisis.
- int_19h 7y ago10% of Musk's money is much less of a burden on Musk, marginal utility and all.
- manigandham 7y agoYou're right, Elon has no inherent responsibility to solve this (he's not Batman to call on whenever we need). Many large companies are already open to helping. There's no shortage of willing capacity. What they need is approval and guidance from the government, that's where the failure is. Notice there's still no reply taking up GM on their offer.
- lightgreen 7y ago> What they need is approval and guidance from the government I actually think these companies need orders from the governments, not just approval and guidance. People compared coronavirus with war in this thread. AFAIK private companies made tanks and guns for money, not for free during WW2 (except for USSR).
- manigandham 7y agoYes, there are special provisions during wartime, but it's unlikely we'll have that in response to a virus pandemic.
- WalterBright 7y agoGM should just start the process of making them anyway.
- manigandham 7y agoThere are medical equipment manufacturers better suited for this role. GM is a last resort and this is more of a symbolic gesture.
- WalterBright 7y agoLive saving ventilators of various designs have been around a long time: http://rc.rcjournal.com/content/56/8/1170 http://rc.rcjournal.com/content/56/8/1170 A ventilator that saves lives does not need to be the latest, most sophisticated technology, especially when the alternative is death.