6 ms·

(6) is a direct response to the White House's continued use of 'Wuhan virus', 'Kung Flu' and other racist/shitty deflection garbage. I'm not defending it, but

by _jal 7y ago

(6) is a direct response to the White House's continued use of 'Wuhan virus', 'Kung Flu' and other racist/shitty deflection garbage. I'm not defending it, but it isn't happening in a vacuum.

Kenji 7y ago
How is calling it "Wuhan Virus" racist? It's literally the truth. I mean, the Spanish flu is also called the Spanish flu, and nobody's complaining.
evgen 7y ago
Sorry to be the bearer of an unpleasant reality, but the latter racist phrasing is far more recent than the attempts by the CCP to spread propaganda about this virus being a US army bio-weapon (which started weeks ago) and calling it the 'Wuhan virus' may be provocative but is not inaccurate.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
arcticbull 7y ago
I'm a lefty, so I think it's important to consider that viruses or diseases are often named for the first person to have them, discover them or the region in which they originated. - Hodgkins Lymphoma is named after... Thomas Hodgkin who discovered it. - Ebola is named after the Ebola River in the DRC. (https://goo.gl/maps/dF1MMnpBBwXpAZ3k8 https://goo.gl/maps/dF1MMnpBBwXpAZ3k8) - Lyme disease is named after Old Lyme, Connecticut. (https://goo.gl/maps/Haqg2fxmYwcHELRY8 https://goo.gl/maps/Haqg2fxmYwcHELRY8) - Bornholm disease is named after Bornholm Island in Denmark (https://goo.gl/maps/LDWDw5iS9X2xsA3B8 https://goo.gl/maps/LDWDw5iS9X2xsA3B8), which is caused by the Coxsackie B virus named after... Coxsackie, New York, a small town on the Hudson where it was isolated. (https://goo.gl/maps/RKrhBup2ZAgzXVGJ9 https://goo.gl/maps/RKrhBup2ZAgzXVGJ9) The recent bout of sensitivity is likely a game of left v. right finger-pointing. Who cares whether it's the Wuhan virus, the Wengliang Flu (after the man who discovered it) or nCoV-19? Go find a cure, a vaccine, etc. Naming a disease after where it started is a long-standing tradition. [1] This kind of shit-stirring over something nobody is actually offended by is exactly what gets the right worked up. [EDIT] In fact, having a disease named after you is considered honorific: "Eponyms are a longstanding tradition in Western science and medicine. Being awarded an eponym is regarded as an honor: 'Eponymity, not anonymity, is the standard.' The scientific and medical communities regard it as bad form to attempt to eponymise oneself." [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_eponymously_named_diseases https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_eponymously_named_dise...
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- ferest 7y ago
  checkout HIV checkout "Spanish flu"
  - arcticbull 7y ago
    Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, German Measels, Zika, Guinea Worm, St. Louis Encephalitis, West Nile too. [1] [1] https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/30440/12-diseases-and-lucky-places-they’re-named https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/30440/12-diseases-and-lu...
sigzero 7y ago
"Wuhan virus", "Chinese virus" are not racist terms. "Kung Flu" is people making funny a serious thing because "Kung Fu" "Kung Flu". I would not level any of that up to racism.
tal8d 7y ago
It was happening long before the WH uttered a word, so if you really want to blame Trump for Chinese propaganda - you are going to have to argue for the concept of preemptive retaliation.
- boomboomsubban 7y ago
  Or note the fact that members of the government outside the White House have made similar statements for some time now.
  - tal8d 7y ago
    While also providing proof that those statements predate China's antics. When China was accusing everyone of fear-mongering, and hints of travel restrictions were met with speeches about the holocaust and hypocritical appeals to the WHO, which US official is to blame for that? I've been watching this thing since December, the USG is pretty much the last one to the party - China's state run media has been saying crazy stuff since day one.
    - boomboomsubban 7y ago
      >which US official is to blame for that? Though it does not excuse many of China's initial actions, and I doubt this is the only reason for those actions, I can understand wanting to downplay something like this while you're in the middle of negotiations to stop a trade war. It's not hard to imagine the US calling for an immediate closing of the borders and shelving of the trade deal.
      - tal8d 7y ago
        > Though it does not excuse many of China's initial actions... This qualifier, "initial", makes me think you are arguing that their subsequent actions are excusable. I'd argue they aren't excusable, even from a completely amoral utilitarian perspective - because nothing they've done even looks rational. Accusing the other party in trade negotiations of releasing a biological weapon, coincidentally right next to your own infectious disease facility, isn't going to improve negotiation prospects - no rational person would think that it could. Threatening to interrupt medical supply chains during a pandemic... I can't think of a better battlecry for those who'd advocate pulling all operations out of China. Forcing workers to return to the factories and claiming that you are back at 85% capacity, when everyone has access to near real time satellite imagery proving that your coal plants aren't running, isn't going to strengthen your negotiation position.
grugagag 7y ago
> (6) is a direct response to the White House's continued use of 'Wuhan virus' How is that a direct response by blaming it on a third country?? And aside from racism, the virus originated in Wuhan China and that is due to unsanitary wet markets, China should own it at least, not asking financial damages for the world economy and lives lost. Fuck Trump, this has nothing to do with his rhetoric, these are facts. The chinese government supressed info about this virus. However, the US government is responsable for doing nothing for more than a month!!!
- arcticbull 7y ago
  > ... the virus originated in Wuhan China and that is due to unsanitary wet markets. There are innumerable wet markets in Asia, this is not only totally unwarranted but largely xenophobic. Would you call the leafy green supply chain in the US "unsanitary" since we recall them in the US a few times a year? The last time we recalled spinach over salmonella was just 6 months ago [1] E. Coli was just 3 months ago [2]. To quote the WHO: "Primary sources of [E. Coli] outbreaks are raw or undercooked ground meat products, raw milk, and faecal contamination of vegetables" [3] so someone's been pooping in America's mixed greens. They may be a bit gruesome if you're unaccustomed but they serve so many people it's hard to believe they're overwhelmingly unsanitary. > The chinese government supressed info about this virus. This on the other hand is a good point. [1] https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/13/health/dole-spinach-recall-salmonella/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/13/health/dole-spinach-recall-sa... [2] https://www.cdc.gov/ecoli/2019/o157h7-11-19/index.html https://www.cdc.gov/ecoli/2019/o157h7-11-19/index.html [3] https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/e-coli https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/e-coli
makomk 7y ago
No, (6) is a direct attempt to distract from the Chinese government's own screw-ups and defuse the outrage it caused within their own population. It was originally aimed at their domestic audience and appeared in the Chinese-language state press and social media before they started spreading the same conspiracy theory in the West.
yellowapple 7y ago
It's more likely that the CCP is responding to a more general allegation of Coronavirus-related racism against Chinese people (e.g. stereotypes about Chinese people as a race and/or culture being universally unsanitary) than specifically to the use of "Wuhan virus" (which is accurate) or "Kung Flu" (which is little more than a silly pun, though I'm partial to "Fluhan" myself).
baq 7y ago
it's as racist as Spanish flu was racist.

by _jal 7y ago

(6) is a direct response to the White House's continued use of 'Wuhan virus', 'Kung Flu' and other racist/shitty deflection garbage. I'm not defending it, but it isn't happening in a vacuum.

Kenji 7y ago

How is calling it "Wuhan Virus" racist? It's literally the truth. I mean, the Spanish flu is also called the Spanish flu, and nobody's complaining.

evgen 7y ago

Sorry to be the bearer of an unpleasant reality, but the latter racist phrasing is far more recent than the attempts by the CCP to spread propaganda about this virus being a US army bio-weapon (which started weeks ago) and calling it the 'Wuhan virus' may be provocative but is not inaccurate.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

arcticbull 7y ago

I'm a lefty, so I think it's important to consider that viruses or diseases are often named for the first person to have them, discover them or the region in which they originated. - Hodgkins Lymphoma is named after... Thomas Hodgkin who discovered it. - Ebola is named after the Ebola River in the DRC. (https://goo.gl/maps/dF1MMnpBBwXpAZ3k8 https://goo.gl/maps/dF1MMnpBBwXpAZ3k8) - Lyme disease is named after Old Lyme, Connecticut. (https://goo.gl/maps/Haqg2fxmYwcHELRY8 https://goo.gl/maps/Haqg2fxmYwcHELRY8) - Bornholm disease is named after Bornholm Island in Denmark (https://goo.gl/maps/LDWDw5iS9X2xsA3B8 https://goo.gl/maps/LDWDw5iS9X2xsA3B8), which is caused by the Coxsackie B virus named after... Coxsackie, New York, a small town on the Hudson where it was isolated. (https://goo.gl/maps/RKrhBup2ZAgzXVGJ9 https://goo.gl/maps/RKrhBup2ZAgzXVGJ9) The recent bout of sensitivity is likely a game of left v. right finger-pointing. Who cares whether it's the Wuhan virus, the Wengliang Flu (after the man who discovered it) or nCoV-19? Go find a cure, a vaccine, etc. Naming a disease after where it started is a long-standing tradition. [1] This kind of shit-stirring over something nobody is actually offended by is exactly what gets the right worked up. [EDIT] In fact, having a disease named after you is considered honorific: "Eponyms are a longstanding tradition in Western science and medicine. Being awarded an eponym is regarded as an honor: 'Eponymity, not anonymity, is the standard.' The scientific and medical communities regard it as bad form to attempt to eponymise oneself." [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_eponymously_named_diseases https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_eponymously_named_dise...

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
ferest 7y ago
checkout HIV checkout "Spanish flu"
- arcticbull 7y ago
  Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, German Measels, Zika, Guinea Worm, St. Louis Encephalitis, West Nile too. [1] [1] https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/30440/12-diseases-and-lucky-places-they’re-named https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/30440/12-diseases-and-lu...

sigzero 7y ago

"Wuhan virus", "Chinese virus" are not racist terms. "Kung Flu" is people making funny a serious thing because "Kung Fu" "Kung Flu". I would not level any of that up to racism.

tal8d 7y ago

It was happening long before the WH uttered a word, so if you really want to blame Trump for Chinese propaganda - you are going to have to argue for the concept of preemptive retaliation.

boomboomsubban 7y ago
Or note the fact that members of the government outside the White House have made similar statements for some time now.
- tal8d 7y ago
  While also providing proof that those statements predate China's antics. When China was accusing everyone of fear-mongering, and hints of travel restrictions were met with speeches about the holocaust and hypocritical appeals to the WHO, which US official is to blame for that? I've been watching this thing since December, the USG is pretty much the last one to the party - China's state run media has been saying crazy stuff since day one.
  - boomboomsubban 7y ago
    >which US official is to blame for that? Though it does not excuse many of China's initial actions, and I doubt this is the only reason for those actions, I can understand wanting to downplay something like this while you're in the middle of negotiations to stop a trade war. It's not hard to imagine the US calling for an immediate closing of the borders and shelving of the trade deal.
    - tal8d 7y ago
      > Though it does not excuse many of China's initial actions... This qualifier, "initial", makes me think you are arguing that their subsequent actions are excusable. I'd argue they aren't excusable, even from a completely amoral utilitarian perspective - because nothing they've done even looks rational. Accusing the other party in trade negotiations of releasing a biological weapon, coincidentally right next to your own infectious disease facility, isn't going to improve negotiation prospects - no rational person would think that it could. Threatening to interrupt medical supply chains during a pandemic... I can't think of a better battlecry for those who'd advocate pulling all operations out of China. Forcing workers to return to the factories and claiming that you are back at 85% capacity, when everyone has access to near real time satellite imagery proving that your coal plants aren't running, isn't going to strengthen your negotiation position.

grugagag 7y ago

> (6) is a direct response to the White House's continued use of 'Wuhan virus' How is that a direct response by blaming it on a third country?? And aside from racism, the virus originated in Wuhan China and that is due to unsanitary wet markets, China should own it at least, not asking financial damages for the world economy and lives lost. Fuck Trump, this has nothing to do with his rhetoric, these are facts. The chinese government supressed info about this virus. However, the US government is responsable for doing nothing for more than a month!!!

arcticbull 7y ago
> ... the virus originated in Wuhan China and that is due to unsanitary wet markets. There are innumerable wet markets in Asia, this is not only totally unwarranted but largely xenophobic. Would you call the leafy green supply chain in the US "unsanitary" since we recall them in the US a few times a year? The last time we recalled spinach over salmonella was just 6 months ago [1] E. Coli was just 3 months ago [2]. To quote the WHO: "Primary sources of [E. Coli] outbreaks are raw or undercooked ground meat products, raw milk, and faecal contamination of vegetables" [3] so someone's been pooping in America's mixed greens. They may be a bit gruesome if you're unaccustomed but they serve so many people it's hard to believe they're overwhelmingly unsanitary. > The chinese government supressed info about this virus. This on the other hand is a good point. [1] https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/13/health/dole-spinach-recall-salmonella/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/13/health/dole-spinach-recall-sa... [2] https://www.cdc.gov/ecoli/2019/o157h7-11-19/index.html https://www.cdc.gov/ecoli/2019/o157h7-11-19/index.html [3] https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/e-coli https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/e-coli

makomk 7y ago

No, (6) is a direct attempt to distract from the Chinese government's own screw-ups and defuse the outrage it caused within their own population. It was originally aimed at their domestic audience and appeared in the Chinese-language state press and social media before they started spreading the same conspiracy theory in the West.

yellowapple 7y ago

It's more likely that the CCP is responding to a more general allegation of Coronavirus-related racism against Chinese people (e.g. stereotypes about Chinese people as a race and/or culture being universally unsanitary) than specifically to the use of "Wuhan virus" (which is accurate) or "Kung Flu" (which is little more than a silly pun, though I'm partial to "Fluhan" myself).

baq 7y ago

it's as racist as Spanish flu was racist.