5 ms·

So basically it has evolved into a laptop with a detachable monitor that includes a built-in camera (which is for sure awesome)

by baxtr 7y ago

braythwayt 7y ago
Yes. But it’s interesting when two things evolve towards each other, but starting from different places. Like comparing bats and birds, or penguins, otters, and fish. In this case, evolving from a device designed for touch only into touch-first is going to be different from a device that evolved from—let’s be honest—keyboards, punch cards, and the command-line.
- Ididntdothis 7y ago
  Judging from the (in my opinion) really clunky multi window feature in iPadOS it seems they are struggling to get even close to the usability of macOS. I don’t think so far iPadOS scales well to larger screen sizes and multitasking. A lot of things take more clicking compared to macOS.
  - braythwayt 7y ago
    The multi-tasking UX is atrocious. Daring Fireball has been posting critical essays and alternate designs for months. I hold out hope for a redesign: They redesigned WatchOS's UX, I don't think the multi-tasking in "untouchable" (heh).
  - 0x38B 7y ago
    It's ironic, but I've transitioned from using Ulysses and other apps for text editing to Blink + Mosh + Tmux + Neovim (with Goyo plugin for focusing). This is on a 12.9" iPad Pro. It's a smooth setup. I like iOS, but am tired of dragging apps from the dock. (Note: I use Working Copy as a local git client & editor for times when I'm without internet or when I need to copy to another app. Great combo.)
hellcow 7y ago
With a locked down OS where you can only use Safari and devs pay Apple a 30% cut on every sale. Not the future I'm looking for, thank you very much.
- HatchedLake721 7y ago
  You want to go back to Windows Mobile days and deploy your apps as .cab files on xda-developers?
  - oblio 7y ago
    There is middle ground between those extremes...
stinos 7y ago
Yes I wonder what's going to 'win', tablet or 'laptop which can act like tablet', or will they both stay? At this rate we'll have to start comparing tablets like this to laptops like Surface Pro and it's clones (or vice-versa, maybe the Surface is the clone, don't remember exact sequence of events) because the only difference is the OS. And if more 'tablet modes' start emerging from main OS the gap will become very narrow.
- skohan 7y ago
  I can't imagine a tablet is ever going to win for extremely typing-heavy tasks like writing and coding. This new keyboard also seems like it requires you to be sitting at a table to work well, which doesn't cover a lot of the cases where I type on a laptop. To be honest, it's hard for me to think of cases where the tablet is better suited outside of things like digital drawing/painting, and some niche cases like at an expo.
  - falcolas 7y ago
    From my colleague's and my experience: the iPad pro is a manager's dream. It's lightweight, you can take notes (either by writing or by typing), you can attend remote meetings with it, it works with all* websites... basically it's everything your average manager or C-level exec could ever want in one package. You are right, however, in that long-form typing (say, over 1k words) and serious multitasking (>2 apps, or 2 apps that refuse to side-by-side) will be a real pain on a tablet. However, you can hook an iPad pro up to a standard USB-C dock and use it with a large monitor as well as a standard keyboard. It will never be a full laptop replacement (though if Apple made it possible to run base MacOS I might change my mind), but it's good enough. * The only websites I've ever had issues with are those that explicitly break the experience.
- Slippery_John 7y ago
  Once I got my ipad pro I basically stopped using my laptop for anything but programming and video games. The former is basically just waiting on tooling and the latter is only a problem because the specific games I want to play aren't available. I think the iPad will be the long term winner here. Legacy OS's are just way too reliant on keyboard / mouse. Having owned a Surface Book, I can easily say that the tablet mode is not workable with the software ecosystem that exists. You can mostly make it function in limited cases, but outside of a small handful of programs built specifically for it the experience is poor. On the other hand, the addition of a keyboard just makes the iPad even easier to use. Using a mouse is slightly more awkward since you can't use gestures, but you can always fall back to the screen that's right in front of you. The extra precision is overkill, but it isn't painful. Another layer to add in the tablets' favor: kids these days are growing up using phones and tablets. That's the way they interact with computing technology. It will be increasingly easier to convince these new generations to buy something that's familiar, but with some extra power and utility, as apposed to something that is foreign.
hellofunk 7y ago
Except you still can’t run your favorite macOS applications, like the proper Photoshop suite.
- saagarjha 7y ago
  You can run Photoshop.
  - hellofunk 7y ago
    Incorrect. It is not the standard desktop version of Photoshop, it is something quite inferior and there are many online articles discussing the differences.
    - saagarjha 7y ago
      It’s the same codebase with a different UI on top of it.
      - Ididntdothis 7y ago
        With less features.
      - hellofunk 7y ago
        You just made my point for me.
        saagarjha 7y ago
        Does “proper” in your mind mean “it looks exactly like the desktop version, even if the UI wouldn’t make sense on the platform”?
        hellofunk 7y ago
        Proper, as in, as capable as. That is, all the features are there, you can do the same work.
thedance 7y ago
Compared to the other laptop they launched today, the iPad Pro actually has more computing resources.

So basically it has evolved into a laptop with a detachable monitor that includes a built-in camera (which is for sure awesome)

by baxtr 7y ago

So basically it has evolved into a laptop with a detachable monitor that includes a built-in camera (which is for sure awesome)

braythwayt 7y ago

Yes. But it’s interesting when two things evolve towards each other, but starting from different places. Like comparing bats and birds, or penguins, otters, and fish. In this case, evolving from a device designed for touch only into touch-first is going to be different from a device that evolved from—let’s be honest—keyboards, punch cards, and the command-line.

Ididntdothis 7y ago
Judging from the (in my opinion) really clunky multi window feature in iPadOS it seems they are struggling to get even close to the usability of macOS. I don’t think so far iPadOS scales well to larger screen sizes and multitasking. A lot of things take more clicking compared to macOS.
- braythwayt 7y ago
  The multi-tasking UX is atrocious. Daring Fireball has been posting critical essays and alternate designs for months. I hold out hope for a redesign: They redesigned WatchOS's UX, I don't think the multi-tasking in "untouchable" (heh).
- 0x38B 7y ago
  It's ironic, but I've transitioned from using Ulysses and other apps for text editing to Blink + Mosh + Tmux + Neovim (with Goyo plugin for focusing). This is on a 12.9" iPad Pro. It's a smooth setup. I like iOS, but am tired of dragging apps from the dock. (Note: I use Working Copy as a local git client & editor for times when I'm without internet or when I need to copy to another app. Great combo.)

hellcow 7y ago

With a locked down OS where you can only use Safari and devs pay Apple a 30% cut on every sale. Not the future I'm looking for, thank you very much.

HatchedLake721 7y ago
You want to go back to Windows Mobile days and deploy your apps as .cab files on xda-developers?
- oblio 7y ago
  There is middle ground between those extremes...

stinos 7y ago

Yes I wonder what's going to 'win', tablet or 'laptop which can act like tablet', or will they both stay? At this rate we'll have to start comparing tablets like this to laptops like Surface Pro and it's clones (or vice-versa, maybe the Surface is the clone, don't remember exact sequence of events) because the only difference is the OS. And if more 'tablet modes' start emerging from main OS the gap will become very narrow.

skohan 7y ago
I can't imagine a tablet is ever going to win for extremely typing-heavy tasks like writing and coding. This new keyboard also seems like it requires you to be sitting at a table to work well, which doesn't cover a lot of the cases where I type on a laptop. To be honest, it's hard for me to think of cases where the tablet is better suited outside of things like digital drawing/painting, and some niche cases like at an expo.
- falcolas 7y ago
  From my colleague's and my experience: the iPad pro is a manager's dream. It's lightweight, you can take notes (either by writing or by typing), you can attend remote meetings with it, it works with all* websites... basically it's everything your average manager or C-level exec could ever want in one package. You are right, however, in that long-form typing (say, over 1k words) and serious multitasking (>2 apps, or 2 apps that refuse to side-by-side) will be a real pain on a tablet. However, you can hook an iPad pro up to a standard USB-C dock and use it with a large monitor as well as a standard keyboard. It will never be a full laptop replacement (though if Apple made it possible to run base MacOS I might change my mind), but it's good enough. * The only websites I've ever had issues with are those that explicitly break the experience.
Slippery_John 7y ago
Once I got my ipad pro I basically stopped using my laptop for anything but programming and video games. The former is basically just waiting on tooling and the latter is only a problem because the specific games I want to play aren't available. I think the iPad will be the long term winner here. Legacy OS's are just way too reliant on keyboard / mouse. Having owned a Surface Book, I can easily say that the tablet mode is not workable with the software ecosystem that exists. You can mostly make it function in limited cases, but outside of a small handful of programs built specifically for it the experience is poor. On the other hand, the addition of a keyboard just makes the iPad even easier to use. Using a mouse is slightly more awkward since you can't use gestures, but you can always fall back to the screen that's right in front of you. The extra precision is overkill, but it isn't painful. Another layer to add in the tablets' favor: kids these days are growing up using phones and tablets. That's the way they interact with computing technology. It will be increasingly easier to convince these new generations to buy something that's familiar, but with some extra power and utility, as apposed to something that is foreign.

hellofunk 7y ago

Except you still can’t run your favorite macOS applications, like the proper Photoshop suite.

saagarjha 7y ago
You can run Photoshop.
- hellofunk 7y ago
  Incorrect. It is not the standard desktop version of Photoshop, it is something quite inferior and there are many online articles discussing the differences.
  - saagarjha 7y ago
    It’s the same codebase with a different UI on top of it.
    - Ididntdothis 7y ago
      With less features.
    - hellofunk 7y ago
      You just made my point for me.
      - saagarjha 7y ago
        Does “proper” in your mind mean “it looks exactly like the desktop version, even if the UI wouldn’t make sense on the platform”?
        hellofunk 7y ago
        Proper, as in, as capable as. That is, all the features are there, you can do the same work.

thedance 7y ago

Compared to the other laptop they launched today, the iPad Pro actually has more computing resources.