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It seems like we should follow the model of South Korea. They seem to have the pandemic under control and almost didn't close any borders. Testing and tracking

It seems like we should follow the model of South Korea. They seem to have the pandemic under control and almost didn't close any borders. Testing and tracking seems to do the trick. Not sure why we like drastic measures and not look at the countries that deal best with it and copy what they do. It's kind of befuddling to me.

philwelch 7y ago
The US is so far behind on testing that the SK approach is not currently an option. The hope is that better options will present themselves in the coming weeks and months.
makomk 7y ago
It's not clear that South Korea does have the pandemic under control - their new cases actually went up slightly in the last day, and there's been worrying talk of small clusters that have the authorities there concerned. The reason they're a problem is that smaller clusters are incredibly hard to find with testing and tracking, so if they're finding some there are probably more undetected ones out there multiplying.
- baq 7y ago
  if they find them quick enough they can still stop them from going exponential, but to do that you have to test more people faster. failing that they'll be forced to go into lockdown in more areas.
dirtyid 7y ago
It's easier to test + trace when you can control people flow within your country. I think it's a little wreckless for the media to elevate the South Korea model without comparing ground realities. SK: basically an island, water on three sides, even more impenetrable North Korean DMZ on the other. Majority of their 50k visitors a day comes via air. Compared to Canada, while we're fortunate enough to only share border with US, but it's also a country 10x CAN population with very lax border crossing process. CAN/US exchange 300k people per day at many border crossings, some of them unmanned/unmonitored. If shit breaks down, it's basically a porous open border. Canada also has 130k air travelers per day. Both CAN & US also receives more visitors from more countries than Korea. Korean trade is done via shipping, Canada has vast supply chain dependency that networks directly into US via highways (thousands of truck drivers) and rail. The exposure, in terms of population flow and commerce, is on a totally different level. Other considerations, Korea has am ore compliant population, there's mandatory civil service and they were a dictatorship until 1979, so anyone over 50, i.e. the vulnerable population have experience with hard times knows how to fall in line (except the religious cults). They also have experience with SARS, which Toronto, Canada has as well, though our response was less than great according to our postmortem. I feel like the media is hyping up S.Korea because it's the most reasonable democratic analogue with an adequate response. No one is going to take mimicking Taiwan, Singapore or HK model seriously because the gulf in ground realities is too large. But most medium size countries with porous border has closer conditions to China than South Korea. Also I don't see this get mentioned at all, but S.Korea politics is pretty corrupt, at least measured against other OECD countries. Almost every one of their former presidents have been jailed or dirty for various reasons. I don't know why people trust their data given how politicized response to this virus is. The administration has every incentive to cover up as well. Time will tell. See "The fates of former presidents of South Korea", it's a gongshow. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_presidents_of_South_Korea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_presidents_of_South_Ko...
- baq 7y ago
  apparently SK got very lucky because they've been doing a large scale pandemic drill just a couple months or so before the real thing got out of hand. https://asiatimes.com/2020/03/why-are-koreas-covid-19-death-rates-so-low/ https://asiatimes.com/2020/03/why-are-koreas-covid-19-death-...
  - __s 7y ago
    Those who prepare tend to be luckier
    - CapricornNoble 7y ago
      "Change favors the prepared mind." A quote from the villains in Under Siege 2. One of the few memorable things from that movie.
blueblimp 7y ago
South Korea is a good model to follow but they were well-prepared, so it's not simple to copy. How they could test so early: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1237058531410489345.html https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1237058531410489345.html How they can test so many: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1238890311272796160.html https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1238890311272796160.html
- _fizz_buzz_ 7y ago
  Very interesting links. That makes sense of course. Being prepared is always better than being unprepared.

philwelch 7y ago

The US is so far behind on testing that the SK approach is not currently an option. The hope is that better options will present themselves in the coming weeks and months.

makomk 7y ago

It's not clear that South Korea does have the pandemic under control - their new cases actually went up slightly in the last day, and there's been worrying talk of small clusters that have the authorities there concerned. The reason they're a problem is that smaller clusters are incredibly hard to find with testing and tracking, so if they're finding some there are probably more undetected ones out there multiplying.

baq 7y ago
if they find them quick enough they can still stop them from going exponential, but to do that you have to test more people faster. failing that they'll be forced to go into lockdown in more areas.

dirtyid 7y ago

It's easier to test + trace when you can control people flow within your country. I think it's a little wreckless for the media to elevate the South Korea model without comparing ground realities. SK: basically an island, water on three sides, even more impenetrable North Korean DMZ on the other. Majority of their 50k visitors a day comes via air. Compared to Canada, while we're fortunate enough to only share border with US, but it's also a country 10x CAN population with very lax border crossing process. CAN/US exchange 300k people per day at many border crossings, some of them unmanned/unmonitored. If shit breaks down, it's basically a porous open border. Canada also has 130k air travelers per day. Both CAN & US also receives more visitors from more countries than Korea. Korean trade is done via shipping, Canada has vast supply chain dependency that networks directly into US via highways (thousands of truck drivers) and rail. The exposure, in terms of population flow and commerce, is on a totally different level. Other considerations, Korea has am ore compliant population, there's mandatory civil service and they were a dictatorship until 1979, so anyone over 50, i.e. the vulnerable population have experience with hard times knows how to fall in line (except the religious cults). They also have experience with SARS, which Toronto, Canada has as well, though our response was less than great according to our postmortem. I feel like the media is hyping up S.Korea because it's the most reasonable democratic analogue with an adequate response. No one is going to take mimicking Taiwan, Singapore or HK model seriously because the gulf in ground realities is too large. But most medium size countries with porous border has closer conditions to China than South Korea. Also I don't see this get mentioned at all, but S.Korea politics is pretty corrupt, at least measured against other OECD countries. Almost every one of their former presidents have been jailed or dirty for various reasons. I don't know why people trust their data given how politicized response to this virus is. The administration has every incentive to cover up as well. Time will tell. See "The fates of former presidents of South Korea", it's a gongshow. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_presidents_of_South_Korea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_presidents_of_South_Ko...

baq 7y ago
apparently SK got very lucky because they've been doing a large scale pandemic drill just a couple months or so before the real thing got out of hand. https://asiatimes.com/2020/03/why-are-koreas-covid-19-death-rates-so-low/ https://asiatimes.com/2020/03/why-are-koreas-covid-19-death-...
- __s 7y ago
  Those who prepare tend to be luckier
  - CapricornNoble 7y ago
    "Change favors the prepared mind." A quote from the villains in Under Siege 2. One of the few memorable things from that movie.

blueblimp 7y ago

South Korea is a good model to follow but they were well-prepared, so it's not simple to copy. How they could test so early: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1237058531410489345.html https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1237058531410489345.html How they can test so many: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1238890311272796160.html https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1238890311272796160.html

_fizz_buzz_ 7y ago
Very interesting links. That makes sense of course. Being prepared is always better than being unprepared.