4 ms·

I'm kind of ashamed that people even have to ask this question. I live a block from my library. Parents take dozens of books home to read to their kids. They d

I'm kind of ashamed that people even have to ask this question. I live a block from my library. Parents take dozens of books home to read to their kids. They don't have to buy them. It would be VERY expensive to buy hundreds of kids books per year. A well informed society benefits everyone. If you already pay for internet, have a computer, have a college degree, buy books on amazon, live in a big city around well-educated individuals, you might not need a library, but you didn't get any of that for free. It cost a lot of money to get you to that point. Not everyone has that. The costs of self-educating without a library would be very high for someone without means. If you just factor cost of computer, internet fees and time it would to search for and acquire low cost/free materials (books are cheaper to carry, require no electricity) it's easy to see that it's not a close comparison. Our problem is that many people can't visualize the benefits of a library until they are in economic turmoil (library use increased during the recession). We don't need fewer libraries, we need more people reading.

JoeAltmaier 16y ago
I find it too expensive(!) to use a library. Getting there, getting back, paying late fees (almost every time). Then, getting library books confused with my own (I have thousands). No, much cheaper and less stress to just buy the dang things. And another thing. I can't believe its not cheaper to just buy people books, than to build a large edifice, staff it with dozens of people, heat it and maintain it. Just sell it, and put up a website: kids books free.
- entangld 16y ago
  You can renew books at most libraries online and avoid late fees. It's cheaper to buy a book than to borrow a free one? Most individuals with money find it more convenient to spend money (e.g. - cooking, transportation, etc...). One building can serve many thousands over a year. Borrowing scales better than buying.
  - JoeAltmaier 16y ago
    Look at the stats on your local library. Maybe they used to serve the public, now they serve a loyal following of library nuts. Look at the stats on your police station, or fire station, or post office (oops - maybe not so good). They pay their way. Carnegie had it right, in the 1910's. But the world has changed, and the library model is (fast becoming) obsolete.
    - deleted 16y ago
      [deleted]
    - JoeAltmaier 16y ago
      And here's some stats on Alaska public libraries: http://library.state.ak.us/dev/plstats/plstats.html#annual_spreadsheets http://library.state.ak.us/dev/plstats/plstats.html#annual_s... What does it show? That Internet access accounts for 1/3 of visits. Do you think that is going up, or going down? Let's cut to the chase: replace the library with public access Internet stations, and stop pretending. Ok, look at it this way. Does your kid go down to the library to research a school report? Or just Google it? Do they even know how to use the index to periodicals? Why?
  - JoeAltmaier 16y ago
    Yes, for an ADD family, its Far cheaper to buy them than "borrow" them. And then ... you own them! And can loan them out yourself! And re-read them. And talk about them, and go find quotes in them... I went to my library to read science fiction, years ago. A few months after I started, the collection started shrinking? The library was having "book sales"! Selling off their collection! To buy more videos, and romance novels, and popular literature. I gave up.
  - JoeAltmaier 16y ago
    To borrow, you must usually have a library card. Which isn't free. So you're actually leasing the books. Kinda like NetFlix, right? So only "individuals with money" are getting borrower priviledges. For the homeless that leaves, what, loitering? Viewing Internet porn in front of the kiddies? Meeting babes?
- noonespecial 16y ago
  The edifice is the point. Depending on one's station in life, the library may just be the only place one can go to escape the booming music, blaring TV's and incessant drama of life in the lower caste. Its a refuge.
  - JoeAltmaier 16y ago
    A multi-million dollar refuge made with your (my) money. How about the park?
- natnat 16y ago
  You really seem to hate libraries. In a thread with thirteen comments (as of now), you've posted seven of them, mostly in response to your own posts. Do you think you could constrain everything to one main post and responses to what other people say? It gives casual lurkers the impression that there is a consensus of opinion against libraries, when there's really just one really vocal person.
  - JoeAltmaier 16y ago
    Thanks, I'll try to get everything under one post. I admit this topic has set me to thinking. And as I think, I research. Then I think some more. No, not a library hater, actually just coming to realize as I write that libraries are obsolete, underutilized, expensive to maintain. Those stats for instance, from Alaska. Bigger libraries have nearly a million visits per year! (smaller ones, hundreds, but it's Alaska after all). But consider: even a mildly avid Library Guy might visit once a week. Add a couple of thousand of that type, and we've covered 25% of the visits with 6000 people. 25% are using the internet. The other half? Declining. Sorry, that just slipped out. Didn't mean to ruin your day with more facts. {Edit} Btw did you object to the actual points I raised? Was I wrong? Is your library experience different? I'd welcome a response to any of them.
    - natnat 16y ago
      >But consider: even a mildly avid Library Guy might visit once a week. Add a couple of thousand of that type, and we've covered 25% of the visits with 6000 people. 25% are using the internet. The other half? Declining. >Sorry, that just slipped out. Didn't mean to ruin your day with more facts. Those aren't facts. Those are numbers you just made up.
      - JoeAltmaier 16y ago
        Um, actually, taken from the Alaska stats page I referenced in this thread. Or do you deny anybody uses the library once a week? How are they returning their books to avoid late fees? Or do they borrow just once or twice a year, return them a week later, and never return? The defence of libraries HAS to presuppose Somebody is borrowing the dang books, right?

JoeAltmaier 16y ago

I find it too expensive(!) to use a library. Getting there, getting back, paying late fees (almost every time). Then, getting library books confused with my own (I have thousands). No, much cheaper and less stress to just buy the dang things. And another thing. I can't believe its not cheaper to just buy people books, than to build a large edifice, staff it with dozens of people, heat it and maintain it. Just sell it, and put up a website: kids books free.

entangld 16y ago
You can renew books at most libraries online and avoid late fees. It's cheaper to buy a book than to borrow a free one? Most individuals with money find it more convenient to spend money (e.g. - cooking, transportation, etc...). One building can serve many thousands over a year. Borrowing scales better than buying.
- JoeAltmaier 16y ago
  Look at the stats on your local library. Maybe they used to serve the public, now they serve a loyal following of library nuts. Look at the stats on your police station, or fire station, or post office (oops - maybe not so good). They pay their way. Carnegie had it right, in the 1910's. But the world has changed, and the library model is (fast becoming) obsolete.
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
  - JoeAltmaier 16y ago
    And here's some stats on Alaska public libraries: http://library.state.ak.us/dev/plstats/plstats.html#annual_spreadsheets http://library.state.ak.us/dev/plstats/plstats.html#annual_s... What does it show? That Internet access accounts for 1/3 of visits. Do you think that is going up, or going down? Let's cut to the chase: replace the library with public access Internet stations, and stop pretending. Ok, look at it this way. Does your kid go down to the library to research a school report? Or just Google it? Do they even know how to use the index to periodicals? Why?
- JoeAltmaier 16y ago
  Yes, for an ADD family, its Far cheaper to buy them than "borrow" them. And then ... you own them! And can loan them out yourself! And re-read them. And talk about them, and go find quotes in them... I went to my library to read science fiction, years ago. A few months after I started, the collection started shrinking? The library was having "book sales"! Selling off their collection! To buy more videos, and romance novels, and popular literature. I gave up.
- JoeAltmaier 16y ago
  To borrow, you must usually have a library card. Which isn't free. So you're actually leasing the books. Kinda like NetFlix, right? So only "individuals with money" are getting borrower priviledges. For the homeless that leaves, what, loitering? Viewing Internet porn in front of the kiddies? Meeting babes?
noonespecial 16y ago
The edifice is the point. Depending on one's station in life, the library may just be the only place one can go to escape the booming music, blaring TV's and incessant drama of life in the lower caste. Its a refuge.
- JoeAltmaier 16y ago
  A multi-million dollar refuge made with your (my) money. How about the park?
natnat 16y ago
You really seem to hate libraries. In a thread with thirteen comments (as of now), you've posted seven of them, mostly in response to your own posts. Do you think you could constrain everything to one main post and responses to what other people say? It gives casual lurkers the impression that there is a consensus of opinion against libraries, when there's really just one really vocal person.
- JoeAltmaier 16y ago
  Thanks, I'll try to get everything under one post. I admit this topic has set me to thinking. And as I think, I research. Then I think some more. No, not a library hater, actually just coming to realize as I write that libraries are obsolete, underutilized, expensive to maintain. Those stats for instance, from Alaska. Bigger libraries have nearly a million visits per year! (smaller ones, hundreds, but it's Alaska after all). But consider: even a mildly avid Library Guy might visit once a week. Add a couple of thousand of that type, and we've covered 25% of the visits with 6000 people. 25% are using the internet. The other half? Declining. Sorry, that just slipped out. Didn't mean to ruin your day with more facts. {Edit} Btw did you object to the actual points I raised? Was I wrong? Is your library experience different? I'd welcome a response to any of them.
  - natnat 16y ago
    >But consider: even a mildly avid Library Guy might visit once a week. Add a couple of thousand of that type, and we've covered 25% of the visits with 6000 people. 25% are using the internet. The other half? Declining. >Sorry, that just slipped out. Didn't mean to ruin your day with more facts. Those aren't facts. Those are numbers you just made up.
    - JoeAltmaier 16y ago
      Um, actually, taken from the Alaska stats page I referenced in this thread. Or do you deny anybody uses the library once a week? How are they returning their books to avoid late fees? Or do they borrow just once or twice a year, return them a week later, and never return? The defence of libraries HAS to presuppose Somebody is borrowing the dang books, right?