4 ms·

Let's say the regulatory costs add up to $100,000,000 and the valve has a marginal cost of $1.00 to make and distribute. They would have to sell just 10,000 uni

Let's say the regulatory costs add up to $100,000,000 and the valve has a marginal cost of $1.00 to make and distribute. They would have to sell just 10,000 units to more than offset their investment. I think I'd wager the world needs more than 10,000 air valves. How can one justify this kind of vicious exploitation of publicly funded healthcare?

Narkov 7y ago
All three of your numbers are purely hypothetical and are likely out by one or two orders of magnitude. My point is that people saying that it is overpriced don't understand the input costs of medical devices.
- jagger27 7y ago
  You're right, it's probably closer to a billion dollars to develop and $0.10 to produce. Doesn't change my argument very much.
- gerdesj 7y ago
  "Let's say the regulatory costs add up to $100,000,000 and the valve has a marginal cost of $1.00 to make and distribute." That's two numbers relating to the cost of production. The second is the cost that a 3D printer doing one off prints actually costs (it's in the article, as a rough estimate.) The first number is a deliberately chosen "insane" example figure to show the absurdity of an $11,000 part. A medical test n license for a single part of a device does not cost anything like $100M. Now as to the market for these things - the third number. Nearly 8,000 people have died so far. I can't be arsed to extrapolate further but I recall reading that these are single use devices.
- negrit 7y ago
  The very likely overpriced. The healthcare industry made over $100 billion in the US only in 2018. I've experienced it first hand, UCSF tried to force me into buying a ($174) kneebrace for over $2400... And the fact that they are threatening to sue for something they couldn't sell is disgusting.
- manicdee 7y ago
  “People don’t understand the development costs” sounds like intellectual onanism to me. You don’t know the cost of development yourself. If you want people to understand, provide better numbers instead of masturbating harder. In the meantime medical equipment executives have garages of luxury cars and mansions on Majorca. That money came from people seeking treatment for life threatening conditions.
asdfadsfgfdda 7y ago
I seriously doubt any critical medical part can be made for $1. If that part fails, there are likely serious consequences for the patient. Sure the plastic is cheap, but the manufacturer will likely do several expensive steps to reduce the failure rate: Each part is traceable from all raw materials to finished product Each part is manually tested/calibrated Each part may be tested with non-destructive testing (x-ray, ultrasound, dye crack inspection etc) For every lot of parts, several parts will be tested destructively Each part comes with liability, so the manufacturer will likely purchase liability insurance Also, the regulatory costs are paid years in advance of a single unit being sold. Once the device is approved (that is, if it's approved at all), the units are sold slowly over years. So the regulatory costs must be financed.
- jagger27 7y ago
  > So the regulatory costs must be financed. Absolutely. Why does the "financing" in this case have to go through a hospital's purchasing department? The obvious reason for why they charge such incredible amounts per unit is because they can. If there was any amount of competition or marketplace for it, it would be cheaper. There clearly isn't. Explain to me how this way of doing things is not holding the public hostage.
- tomrod 7y ago
  > I seriously doubt any critical medical part can be made for $1. Seems like these things that were 3D printed could be. At least at a marginal cost.
- gentleman11 7y ago
  A few failures is a lot less deadly than what is happening in Italy right now
kube-system 7y ago
What specifically is this valve for? A lot of medical equipment is surprisingly low volume. The UK for instance has 5000 ventilators in the entire country. Ventec was interviewed on NBC News this evening, they said they normally produce 150 ventilators per month. There are tons of medical devices that are low enough volume that most hospitals don't even have a single unit. There's a reason why we have hospitals with varying levels of status, capabilities, and specialties. There are fairly common surgeries that require equipment that only exists in 2 or 3 digit quantities in the entire world.
- manicdee 7y ago
  So few are available because they are hideously expensive. They are hideously expensive because so few are bought.

Narkov 7y ago

All three of your numbers are purely hypothetical and are likely out by one or two orders of magnitude. My point is that people saying that it is overpriced don't understand the input costs of medical devices.

jagger27 7y ago
You're right, it's probably closer to a billion dollars to develop and $0.10 to produce. Doesn't change my argument very much.
gerdesj 7y ago
"Let's say the regulatory costs add up to $100,000,000 and the valve has a marginal cost of $1.00 to make and distribute." That's two numbers relating to the cost of production. The second is the cost that a 3D printer doing one off prints actually costs (it's in the article, as a rough estimate.) The first number is a deliberately chosen "insane" example figure to show the absurdity of an $11,000 part. A medical test n license for a single part of a device does not cost anything like $100M. Now as to the market for these things - the third number. Nearly 8,000 people have died so far. I can't be arsed to extrapolate further but I recall reading that these are single use devices.
negrit 7y ago
The very likely overpriced. The healthcare industry made over $100 billion in the US only in 2018. I've experienced it first hand, UCSF tried to force me into buying a ($174) kneebrace for over $2400... And the fact that they are threatening to sue for something they couldn't sell is disgusting.
manicdee 7y ago
“People don’t understand the development costs” sounds like intellectual onanism to me. You don’t know the cost of development yourself. If you want people to understand, provide better numbers instead of masturbating harder. In the meantime medical equipment executives have garages of luxury cars and mansions on Majorca. That money came from people seeking treatment for life threatening conditions.

asdfadsfgfdda 7y ago

I seriously doubt any critical medical part can be made for $1. If that part fails, there are likely serious consequences for the patient. Sure the plastic is cheap, but the manufacturer will likely do several expensive steps to reduce the failure rate: Each part is traceable from all raw materials to finished product Each part is manually tested/calibrated Each part may be tested with non-destructive testing (x-ray, ultrasound, dye crack inspection etc) For every lot of parts, several parts will be tested destructively Each part comes with liability, so the manufacturer will likely purchase liability insurance Also, the regulatory costs are paid years in advance of a single unit being sold. Once the device is approved (that is, if it's approved at all), the units are sold slowly over years. So the regulatory costs must be financed.

jagger27 7y ago
> So the regulatory costs must be financed. Absolutely. Why does the "financing" in this case have to go through a hospital's purchasing department? The obvious reason for why they charge such incredible amounts per unit is because they can. If there was any amount of competition or marketplace for it, it would be cheaper. There clearly isn't. Explain to me how this way of doing things is not holding the public hostage.
tomrod 7y ago
> I seriously doubt any critical medical part can be made for $1. Seems like these things that were 3D printed could be. At least at a marginal cost.
gentleman11 7y ago
A few failures is a lot less deadly than what is happening in Italy right now

kube-system 7y ago

What specifically is this valve for? A lot of medical equipment is surprisingly low volume. The UK for instance has 5000 ventilators in the entire country. Ventec was interviewed on NBC News this evening, they said they normally produce 150 ventilators per month. There are tons of medical devices that are low enough volume that most hospitals don't even have a single unit. There's a reason why we have hospitals with varying levels of status, capabilities, and specialties. There are fairly common surgeries that require equipment that only exists in 2 or 3 digit quantities in the entire world.

manicdee 7y ago
So few are available because they are hideously expensive. They are hideously expensive because so few are bought.