9 ms·

I think what a lot of nightclubs end up doing is definitely discriminatory and we should not tolerate that.

microcolonel 7y ago
As someone who does not frequent nightclubs, I don't really see the problem with a self-selecting group of people with standards? Some people don't want to see you, and that's their business.
- afterburner 7y ago
  I mean, why give them a free pass for asshole behaviour? You can shame them and leave them alone.
  - microcolonel 7y ago
    Who are they being assholes to? You don't have a right to invade people's private spaces. I don't have to invite you into my home. Provided it's not a matter of a protected characteristic, the idea that you can push your way through the door by law is silly. They go there to meet people who titilate them, and who don't remind them of how life can go wrong; that's their business in my view. I know that I'm not attracted to ugly, unhealthy, or elderly people, and it's not wrong to feel that way, it is basically natural; and people who are themselves ugly, unhealthy, or elderly also feel these same things that you find ugly to acknowledge.
    - afterburner 7y ago
      > push your way through the door by law I guess you missed the part where I said you can leave them alone.
    - gbear605 7y ago
      A night club is your private home?
- bjourne 7y ago
  About a decade ago there was a huge controversy where I live about many nightclubs limiting the number of immigrant male patrons per night. I guess you don't see a problem with that either? "Protected class" is a cop out because the question isn't about what the law says but what is moral.
  - heartbeats 7y ago
    Well, you want to have an exclusive clientele. If you get people who live in the ghetto going there, it's not exclusive. It just causes a poor vibe. I mean, some nightclubs have immigrants, but nobody goes there because there are too many immigrants. It's sort of the same thing here with TikTok: on one hand we say that it's bad to ethnically discriminate in nightclubs, on the other hand we don't go to the 'urban' nightclubs, and take it as a good signal when we read the immigrant patrons online complaining about ethnic discrimination.
catalogia 7y ago
If the pretty people don't want an ugly guy like me around, then why would an ugly guy like me want to hang out with those pretty people? It seems like a "nothing of value was lost" situation. I'd rather hang out with people that enjoy my presence. What would shaming them for this accomplish? Is the idea to shame them so much that they pretend to like ugly people like me? What would be the point of that?
- afterburner 7y ago
  Why would you not shame them? Shaming is free and legally inconsequential. You are essentially saying no one has the right to complain.
  - catalogia 7y ago
    I don't shame people unless I think it will accomplish something productive. I wouldn't think of denying that you have the right to shame people for whatever reason you like, but I choose not to do it myself unless I see a good reason for it.
    - afterburner 7y ago
      To affect their behaviour, obviously. To provide negative feedback.
      - catalogia 7y ago
        So back to my question: "What would shaming them for this accomplish? Is the idea to shame them so much that they pretend to like ugly people like me? What would be the point of that?" What effect on their behavior do you hope to accomplish by shaming pretty people for not wanting to hang out with ugly people? I'm not seeing a productive reason to do this.
      - v64 7y ago
        That only works on people who aren't shameless and are willing to reevaluate their own behavior based on external criticism. Sometimes you have to pick your battles.
finnh 7y ago
unattractive people are not a protected class
- leereeves 7y ago
  And 100 years ago race, sex, and sexual orientation weren't protected classes. Society makes progress, slowly.
  - toxik 7y ago
    Yes, let’s mix all the colors until we all turn out culturally brown. Sounds super exciting.
  - whoisjuan 7y ago
    But how can you objectively establish that somebody is unattractive? Assuming the world moves into this hypothetical society you're describing nobody wants to be part of that new protected class. If you're by some semantic classified as unattractive, you will automatically feel segregated and marginalized. This is not like sexual orientation where non-heterosexual people actually have a desire to express their sexuality but this desire is repressed by a regressive, judgemental society. This is exactly why "Gay Pride" is a thing. Compare that to being unattractive. Unattractive people, whatever that means, don't want to be part of that group. That's a pure factual reality of the human instinct. People want to feel attractive because they have a natural instinct to intermingle and reproduce. But even if we opt to oversee this particular deficiency when attempting to justify an "unattractive" protected class, the problem is that "attractive" is extremely subjective and usually dictated by societal norms. What's attractive today wasn't attractive 100 years ago. What's attractive in Africa is not what's attractive in North America. What's attractive for me (even in this dictated herd mentality) is not necessarily attractive to you. The only common factor that all these perspectives share is that nobody wants to be classified as unattractive.
    - leereeves 7y ago
      People in this hypothetical protected class are placed there by others. They're already segregated and marginalized, and generally no one asks them if they want that. We have an example of that right here from TikTok.
briandear 7y ago
When it’s your money building and running the club, you can decide who to let in or not. There is freedom of association and the freedom not to associate. If a nightclub was a public service, the argument might hold, but it’s not. However, let’s extend your discrimination opposition to universities— should they be allowed to admit or deny people based on their economic, racial, or other non-academic characteristics?

As someone who does not frequent nightclubs, I don't really see the problem with a self-selecting group of people with standards? Some people don't want to see you, and that's their business.

afterburner 7y ago
I mean, why give them a free pass for asshole behaviour? You can shame them and leave them alone.
- microcolonel 7y ago
  Who are they being assholes to? You don't have a right to invade people's private spaces. I don't have to invite you into my home. Provided it's not a matter of a protected characteristic, the idea that you can push your way through the door by law is silly. They go there to meet people who titilate them, and who don't remind them of how life can go wrong; that's their business in my view. I know that I'm not attracted to ugly, unhealthy, or elderly people, and it's not wrong to feel that way, it is basically natural; and people who are themselves ugly, unhealthy, or elderly also feel these same things that you find ugly to acknowledge.
  - afterburner 7y ago
    > push your way through the door by law I guess you missed the part where I said you can leave them alone.
  - gbear605 7y ago
    A night club is your private home?
bjourne 7y ago
About a decade ago there was a huge controversy where I live about many nightclubs limiting the number of immigrant male patrons per night. I guess you don't see a problem with that either? "Protected class" is a cop out because the question isn't about what the law says but what is moral.
- heartbeats 7y ago
  Well, you want to have an exclusive clientele. If you get people who live in the ghetto going there, it's not exclusive. It just causes a poor vibe. I mean, some nightclubs have immigrants, but nobody goes there because there are too many immigrants. It's sort of the same thing here with TikTok: on one hand we say that it's bad to ethnically discriminate in nightclubs, on the other hand we don't go to the 'urban' nightclubs, and take it as a good signal when we read the immigrant patrons online complaining about ethnic discrimination.

catalogia 7y ago

If the pretty people don't want an ugly guy like me around, then why would an ugly guy like me want to hang out with those pretty people? It seems like a "nothing of value was lost" situation. I'd rather hang out with people that enjoy my presence. What would shaming them for this accomplish? Is the idea to shame them so much that they pretend to like ugly people like me? What would be the point of that?

afterburner 7y ago
Why would you not shame them? Shaming is free and legally inconsequential. You are essentially saying no one has the right to complain.
- catalogia 7y ago
  I don't shame people unless I think it will accomplish something productive. I wouldn't think of denying that you have the right to shame people for whatever reason you like, but I choose not to do it myself unless I see a good reason for it.
  - afterburner 7y ago
    To affect their behaviour, obviously. To provide negative feedback.
    - catalogia 7y ago
      So back to my question: "What would shaming them for this accomplish? Is the idea to shame them so much that they pretend to like ugly people like me? What would be the point of that?" What effect on their behavior do you hope to accomplish by shaming pretty people for not wanting to hang out with ugly people? I'm not seeing a productive reason to do this.
    - v64 7y ago
      That only works on people who aren't shameless and are willing to reevaluate their own behavior based on external criticism. Sometimes you have to pick your battles.

finnh 7y ago

unattractive people are not a protected class

leereeves 7y ago
And 100 years ago race, sex, and sexual orientation weren't protected classes. Society makes progress, slowly.
- toxik 7y ago
  Yes, let’s mix all the colors until we all turn out culturally brown. Sounds super exciting.
- whoisjuan 7y ago
  But how can you objectively establish that somebody is unattractive? Assuming the world moves into this hypothetical society you're describing nobody wants to be part of that new protected class. If you're by some semantic classified as unattractive, you will automatically feel segregated and marginalized. This is not like sexual orientation where non-heterosexual people actually have a desire to express their sexuality but this desire is repressed by a regressive, judgemental society. This is exactly why "Gay Pride" is a thing. Compare that to being unattractive. Unattractive people, whatever that means, don't want to be part of that group. That's a pure factual reality of the human instinct. People want to feel attractive because they have a natural instinct to intermingle and reproduce. But even if we opt to oversee this particular deficiency when attempting to justify an "unattractive" protected class, the problem is that "attractive" is extremely subjective and usually dictated by societal norms. What's attractive today wasn't attractive 100 years ago. What's attractive in Africa is not what's attractive in North America. What's attractive for me (even in this dictated herd mentality) is not necessarily attractive to you. The only common factor that all these perspectives share is that nobody wants to be classified as unattractive.
  - leereeves 7y ago
    People in this hypothetical protected class are placed there by others. They're already segregated and marginalized, and generally no one asks them if they want that. We have an example of that right here from TikTok.

briandear 7y ago

When it’s your money building and running the club, you can decide who to let in or not. There is freedom of association and the freedom not to associate. If a nightclub was a public service, the argument might hold, but it’s not. However, let’s extend your discrimination opposition to universities— should they be allowed to admit or deny people based on their economic, racial, or other non-academic characteristics?