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This post is a good example of a phenomenon I keep seeing when it comes to how people view incomes- People pay much more attention to their own circle and to th

This post is a good example of a phenomenon I keep seeing when it comes to how people view incomes- People pay much more attention to their own circle and to those making more money than them, so they get a skewed outlook on what is 'normal' and 'average'. That's why everyone in America thinks they are 'middle class', whether they make 30k or 500k. Lawyers and i-bankers are a different story, but you won't find any statistic to back up your claim that pedestrian engineers who just show up regularly make 100k+.

nandemo 16y ago
Here you are: http://www.indeed.com/salary?q1=%22senior+software+engineer%22&l1=san+francisco%2C+ca http://www.indeed.com/salary?q1=%22senior+software+engineer%... http://www.indeed.com/salary?q1=%22senior+system+administrator%22&l1=san+francisco%2C+ca http://www.indeed.com/salary?q1=%22senior+system+administrat... http://www.indeed.com/salary?q1=dba&l1=san+francisco%2C+ca http://www.indeed.com/salary?q1=dba&l1=san+francisco%2C+...
- DannoHung 16y ago
  Things shift significantly when you start looking outside the 10 most populous cities in America. I'd even bet that if you exclude SF/The Valley, Seattle, and New York, you'll find a pretty decent cliff.
  - cookiecaper 16y ago
    Agreed. As a software engineer around here (Utah), $100k-$120k is a senior position. Just look at the job listings or Glassdoor ranges from companies in the area if you don't believe me. In fact, most senior positions start around $70k-$75k, so if you make $100k-$120k you're doing better than many of your peers. In Kansas City or other midwestern localities, the salaries are even less.
    - juiceandjuice 16y ago
      I was just gonna comment about Utah. I'm 25 and I just moved out of SLC to the Bay. I'm starting out at 85k in sort of a mid-level position, and I was hoping just to get 60k coming from Utah. I had absolutely no clue what to even ask for. I asked for 60, hoping to get 55, the HR person put it in as 60-70, and they came back and offered me 85. Put in in perspective from a working student: In my 2009 taxes, I filed for 13k. 2008, 12k, 2007 15k. Average salary of my friends is probably somewhere around 40-60k, with educations varying from some college to a masters degree. I work at a national lab, but I'm completely within the confines of the Office of Science. I make 30k more than the Research professors I worked for at the U. On the other hand, I'm thinking of saving up to buy a house back there and just renting it out because there's no way I could buy one here unless I was making 150+.
- _delirium 16y ago
  Those all seem to be senior positions, and only in certain cities. So I would agree that $100k+ is a common salary for an engineer, especially a senior one. But the original post was talking about the bare minimum as a professional, which should include various kinds of professionals, at different levels of seniority and various locations. For example, I'd consider jobs like this to be "professional" --> http://www.indeed.com/salary?q1=electrical+engineer&l1=chicago http://www.indeed.com/salary?q1=electrical+engineer&l1=c... http://www.indeed.com/salary?q1=software+engineer&l1=seattle http://www.indeed.com/salary?q1=software+engineer&l1=sea...
  - sokoloff 16y ago
    In the US, good software engineers or sysengineers get a "senior" title with 2-4 years experience, and probably closer to the 2. So, it's a "senior" position in title only.
    - bradya 16y ago
      Yes, I can vouch for that. I've worked with several "senior" developers who had "decades" of experience but had no idea how to write good code.
    - salemh 16y ago
      My experience recruiting Senior Developers (not a coder, take it for what its worth) for top-3 eCommerce firms, top 10 Las Vegas Casino's and Casino game design firms (which normally offer lower compensation) and top financial firms. Low-cost of living, "Senior" developers were making ~$80-$90,000 base upwards to $120,000 base (rare). High cost of living areas the Senior developers were making $90,000 (probably poor negotiation or "title" based "Senior" vs skill level) to $160,000 base. In higher cost of living area's the benefits and "perks" were always higher, but tended towards a lower work-life balance. The work-life statement is generalized, since it is, of course, company dependent. In lower/mid level cost of living, "breaking" $100,000 was difficult to negotiate.
gte910h 16y ago
97k is the median income in the valley. That's why you keep seeing this figure. Pedestrian engineers a couple years in earn this all over the valley....and drive 60 minutes because they can't afford a 3 bedroom house near their work on that salary.

nandemo 16y ago

Here you are: http://www.indeed.com/salary?q1=%22senior+software+engineer%22&l1=san+francisco%2C+ca http://www.indeed.com/salary?q1=%22senior+software+engineer%... http://www.indeed.com/salary?q1=%22senior+system+administrator%22&l1=san+francisco%2C+ca http://www.indeed.com/salary?q1=%22senior+system+administrat... http://www.indeed.com/salary?q1=dba&l1=san+francisco%2C+ca http://www.indeed.com/salary?q1=dba&l1=san+francisco%2C+...

DannoHung 16y ago
Things shift significantly when you start looking outside the 10 most populous cities in America. I'd even bet that if you exclude SF/The Valley, Seattle, and New York, you'll find a pretty decent cliff.
- cookiecaper 16y ago
  Agreed. As a software engineer around here (Utah), $100k-$120k is a senior position. Just look at the job listings or Glassdoor ranges from companies in the area if you don't believe me. In fact, most senior positions start around $70k-$75k, so if you make $100k-$120k you're doing better than many of your peers. In Kansas City or other midwestern localities, the salaries are even less.
  - juiceandjuice 16y ago
    I was just gonna comment about Utah. I'm 25 and I just moved out of SLC to the Bay. I'm starting out at 85k in sort of a mid-level position, and I was hoping just to get 60k coming from Utah. I had absolutely no clue what to even ask for. I asked for 60, hoping to get 55, the HR person put it in as 60-70, and they came back and offered me 85. Put in in perspective from a working student: In my 2009 taxes, I filed for 13k. 2008, 12k, 2007 15k. Average salary of my friends is probably somewhere around 40-60k, with educations varying from some college to a masters degree. I work at a national lab, but I'm completely within the confines of the Office of Science. I make 30k more than the Research professors I worked for at the U. On the other hand, I'm thinking of saving up to buy a house back there and just renting it out because there's no way I could buy one here unless I was making 150+.
_delirium 16y ago
Those all seem to be senior positions, and only in certain cities. So I would agree that $100k+ is a common salary for an engineer, especially a senior one. But the original post was talking about the bare minimum as a professional, which should include various kinds of professionals, at different levels of seniority and various locations. For example, I'd consider jobs like this to be "professional" --> http://www.indeed.com/salary?q1=electrical+engineer&l1=chicago http://www.indeed.com/salary?q1=electrical+engineer&l1=c... http://www.indeed.com/salary?q1=software+engineer&l1=seattle http://www.indeed.com/salary?q1=software+engineer&l1=sea...
- sokoloff 16y ago
  In the US, good software engineers or sysengineers get a "senior" title with 2-4 years experience, and probably closer to the 2. So, it's a "senior" position in title only.
  - bradya 16y ago
    Yes, I can vouch for that. I've worked with several "senior" developers who had "decades" of experience but had no idea how to write good code.
  - salemh 16y ago
    My experience recruiting Senior Developers (not a coder, take it for what its worth) for top-3 eCommerce firms, top 10 Las Vegas Casino's and Casino game design firms (which normally offer lower compensation) and top financial firms. Low-cost of living, "Senior" developers were making ~$80-$90,000 base upwards to $120,000 base (rare). High cost of living areas the Senior developers were making $90,000 (probably poor negotiation or "title" based "Senior" vs skill level) to $160,000 base. In higher cost of living area's the benefits and "perks" were always higher, but tended towards a lower work-life balance. The work-life statement is generalized, since it is, of course, company dependent. In lower/mid level cost of living, "breaking" $100,000 was difficult to negotiate.

gte910h 16y ago

97k is the median income in the valley. That's why you keep seeing this figure. Pedestrian engineers a couple years in earn this all over the valley....and drive 60 minutes because they can't afford a 3 bedroom house near their work on that salary.