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Geez, I thought this might be an overblown piece about algorithms unwittingly optimizing for the wrong things, but the headline is pretty accurate. Discussing h
by papeda 7y ago
Geez, I thought this might be an overblown piece about algorithms unwittingly optimizing for the wrong things, but the headline is pretty accurate. Discussing how moderators choose content to recommend to people in the “For You” section (not a user — I assume this is something highlighted to users):
> Under this policy, TikTok moderators were explicitly told to suppress uploads from users with flaws both congenital and inevitable. “Abnormal body shape,” “ugly facial looks,” dwarfism, and “obvious beer belly,” “too many wrinkles,” “eye disorders,” and many other “low quality” traits are all enough to keep uploads out of the algorithmic fire hose.
A TikTok spokesperson seems to confirm they are real guidelines, but won’t confirm how they were used.
> TikTok spokesperson Josh Gartner told The Intercept that “most of” the livestream guidelines reviewed by The Intercept “are either no longer in use, or in some cases appear to never have been in place,” but would not provide specifics.
- golergka 7y agoThat's platform vs editor problem of social media all over again. You're either a communication platform akin to a phone cord that functions regardless of what's communicated on it, or an centrally controlled media with an editorial board which is in charge of what users post on in and is responsible for it. The only difference with Facebook is that it got crap from people who wanted it to be responsible for it's content (fake news), while TikTok gets crap from people who were not prepated for it to be so moderated, but it's still the same fundamental problem of trying to sit on both chairs at the same time.
- miguelmota 7y agoInstagram does the same thing; my 'Explore' tab is full of beautiful people even though I don't follow them. From a business standpoint it makes sense to promote the best looking content since it'll lure in more young users. The young kids probably think something like "Hey look at all those beautiful people. I want to be like them and they use Tik Tok so I'm going to use Tik Tok too."
- BurningFrog 7y ago> since it'll lure in more young users The older crowd also prefer to look at beautiful people.
- pedrosorio 7y ago> Instagram does the same thing No, it does not. There is a big difference between: - showing you unconnected content you are likely to engage with - having rules enforced with the help of human reviewers to prevent any user from getting recommendations with people deemed ugly/poor/etc.
- ViViDboarder 7y agoI mean, if it’s the same result does it matter if it’s human or artificial moderation?
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- pedrosorio 7y agoIt's not the same result. Ugly/fat/poor people can make engaging content and that will be recommended on Instagram. The content you see depends on your interests. Making this up: if you regularly engage with topics that have a majority of fat people posting, say weight loss strategies, you will see a lot of fat people in Instagram Explore. It's the difference between: - Instagram: "I mostly see beautiful people" (because that's the content I and many users engage with). - Tiktok: "I never see ugly people" (because the platform has a guideline that prevents that content from being shown to me)
- avocado4 7y agoChina exporting its culture to the world.
- dang 7y agoSince you've ignored our many requests to stop doing nationalistic flamewar on Hacker News, I've banned this account. If you don't want to be banned, you can email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. Maybe you don't owe a country better, but you owe this community considerably better if you want to post here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- GarrisonPrime 7y agoI'll assume you know better than I, but while browsing the past few weeks of that account's comments I didn't see any "nationalistic flamewar" talk. Just a few mentions of Chinese authoritarianism and the stiffing of dissent and open discourse. ...oh.
- dang 7y agoMaybe in order for it to fully make sense, you have to understand that we'd warned that account four times already, as well as some other things that aren't public. But even apart from that, there is a litany of comments that broke the site guidelines. It's not like these were hard to find: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22321296 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22321296 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22313537 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22313537 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22447855 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22447855 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22291539 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22291539 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22251922 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22251922 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22209247 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22209247
- nojvek 7y agoTinder does the same thing too right ? Attractive people are matched with attractive people At the end of the day when it comes to eyeballs, sexiness sells. The rules of attraction are very much gamified at this point.
- teekert 7y agoI'm suprised, I mean normally people themselves are already quite capable of following and watching only the most gifted, beautiful and talented individuals, or at least the ones that appear so. All to feel a little bit worse about themselves every day. I don't understand why you would need to actively encourage this, I don't believe Twitter would ever have people with “Abnormal body shape,” “ugly facial looks,” dwarfism, and “obvious beer belly,” “too many wrinkles,” “eye disorders,” and many other “low quality” features trending.
- pjc50 7y agoTwitter is great for people who don't look conventionally attractive, because there's no expectation of having real profile photos. On Twitter you really can go viral just by being funny. Instagram on the other hand is so beauty centric that it's created its own makeup aesthetic.
- kingludite 7y agoWhat if I'm beutiful, funny and intelligent? where to go? I'm so confused.
- nukst 7y agoTo my house, I will paint you like a French girl.
- wyclif 7y agoIn SE Asia, "eye disorders" is code for chinky eyes. In some countries, like South Korea and Japan, women will spend loads of money for blepharoplasty because the culture romanticizes large, round eyes (see anime).
- gadders 7y agoJust as a counterpoint - I (a middle aged man) joined TikTok to keep an eye on my teenage daughter's posts. I didn't know there was a "For You" channel. I thought it worked more like instagram and only followers could see what you post. Anyway, I uploaded the most recent video on my phone as a test which was me getting my nostrils waxed in a Turkish Barbers. It hit the For You page and it's now got 360k views :-(