4 ms·

Call me skeptical. The details in this article are insufficient to draw many conclusions. There is no paper, although a YouTube video (in French) is linked. Th

by aazaa 7y ago

Call me skeptical. The details in this article are insufficient to draw many conclusions. There is no paper, although a YouTube video (in French) is linked. The article doesn't make it clear whether Raoult was being interviewed, or the information was taken from the video. The linked Google Doc (not regarding the study in question, despite another comment on this thread) summarizes results from other purported studies. Even then, this document itself appears to lack the usual signs of authenticity. Be careful about drawing conclusions because the details just aren't there. Details are everything in drug discovery. Edit: Then there's the vague language in the article. > “We were able to ascertain that patients who had not received Plaquenil (the drug containing hydroxychloroquine) were still contagious after six days, but of those that had received Plaquenil, after six days, only 25% were still contagious.” "Contagious" means nothing because AFAIK, there is no test for it. There is a PCR test being used around the world to detect the presence of viral RNA. So it's suspicious that an expert would be using the word "contagious," which implies the ability to transmit the virus under experimental conditions. And it gets worse. Have a look at the video linked in the article: https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/coronavirus-diagnostiquons-et-traitons-premiers-resultats-pour-la-chloroquine/ https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/coronavirus-diagnosti... First, it begins with a title that doesn't match the title of the speaker's slide deck. Second, judging from the slides the video appears to be about COVID-19 testing in general. There doesn't seem to be anything of substance about chloroquine anywhere. I don't speak French, so maybe there is something there. If so, the slide deck doesn't reflect it. And there's no way that a successful clinical trial of a COVID-19 drug would begin with basic introductory slides that everyone already knows. This just doesn't add up. I'm calling bullshit.

NotAnAccountNO 7y ago
This is the presentation Raoult gave yesterday, publication is coming next week. https://youtu.be/n4J8kydOvbc https://youtu.be/n4J8kydOvbc Link to the powerpoint. Please don't kill the IHU's servers though: it's all in french. https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/COVID-19.pdf https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/wp-content/uploads/20...
- aazaa 7y ago
  1. The video is linked in the article. 2. The linked PDF is just a generic presentation about COVID-19 testing.
  - cm2187 7y ago
    I believe the 6th and last slides are the result of their own testing and experiments. I think you have to watch the video to understand why he is going through other published results on that virus. I understand he is pushing the idea that instead of telling people who feel sick to self isolate and only call a hospital (and get tested) if they have respiratory problems, to instead test them early, and if the are positive, provide them with anti-viral treatments. That way the patient is contagious for less than a week instead of 3 weeks on average.
    - aazaa 7y ago
      > I understand he is pushing the idea that instead of telling people who feel sick to self isolate and only call a hospital (and get tested) if they have respiratory problems, to instead test them early, and if the are positive, provide them with anti-viral treatments. If so, that's about as far away from reporting the results of a successful clinical trial as you can get. The article is fake.
w3mmpp 7y ago
The article links to that research too: https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vTi-g18ftNZUMRAj2SwRPodtscFio7bJ7GdNgbJAGbdfF67WuRJB3ZsidgpidB2eocFHAVjIL-7deJ7/pub https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vTi-g18ftNZUMRAj... Under: "US academic study concurs" half page.
bertil 7y ago
I have never heard of that news source, Connexion France. The language is all over the place. I’d be highly skeptical of that source. The hospital quoted isn’t one of the main institute that would have a direct mandate from the government: Institut Pasteur (in spite of being private) would the reference research center for infectious diseases.
- znpy 7y ago
  The domain appears to have been registered in 2004. They state they've been around since 2002: https://www.connexionfrance.com/About-Us-Legal-Information https://www.connexionfrance.com/About-Us-Legal-Information
  - bertil 7y ago
    That page doesn’t really look like most reasonable media ‘About Us’ page: no by-line, no photos, link to PO boxes or AWS (!), unclear editorial line. I’m happy there is a (generic) name for the editor but the rest wouldn’t really count as a positive to me.
    - heyoni 7y ago
      It'd be easier if you pointed out what about their site set you off into thinking it was fake news conspiracy pushing publication...
- greatpatton 7y ago
  Institut Pasteur is not the only research body in France regarding infectious diseases... They are directly linked to the Marseille University Hospital (AP-HM) and all the usual public research bodies like INSERM, CNRS. If you want another source than connexion France, you have this article from Le Monde: https://www.lemonde.fr/sciences/article/2020/03/17/la-chloroquine-une-piste-pour-lutter-contre-le-sars-cov-2_6033364_1650684.html https://www.lemonde.fr/sciences/article/2020/03/17/la-chloro... Are you highly skeptical of Le Monde?
  - 7y ago
raindeer3 7y ago
Previous thread on the Chinese study https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22601196 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22601196
wolfhumble 7y ago
Any doctors or medical researchers here? I am not, so DON'T take the following as if I personally have any knowledge in this area. So talk to a medical expert about this! A Chinese study from March 9, see the link 1) with a downloadable PDF, say the following in its conclusions: "Hydroxychloroquine was found to be more potent than chloroquine to inhibit SARS-CoV-2 in vitro." Does the French study use Hydroxychloroquine as well? From the article it mentions Hydroxychloroquine but also Chloroquine phosphate. 1) https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciaa237/5801998 https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid...
8bitsrule 7y ago
Didier is very real. "According to the analysis of the publications from 2007 to 2013 ... Didier Raoult appears at the top of the European classification (including Israel) with 18,128 citations.... He totalizes more than 2,300 indexed publications..." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Didier_Raoult https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Didier_Raoult Chloroquine is very real: This Feb 20, 2020 Nature>Cell Research paper mentions the efficacy of chlorquine: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41422-020-0282-0 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41422-020-0282-0
- aazaa 7y ago
  Chloroquine is real, but in vitro work is a long, long way from human treatment. The paper you linked is an in vitro study only. There isn't even any preliminary animal data.
capkutay 7y ago
Just an FYI doctors are using hydroxychloroquine in the US today to fight C19. This isn’t the only study that suggests chloroquine is a good treatment. Medcram had its own analysis of a different paper from china that said hydroxychloroquine was useful when administered early. However it’s possible new data may present itself in the coming weeks that suggest otherwise. But the type of confirmation you’re looking for is impossible in this critical timeframe.

by aazaa 7y ago

NotAnAccountNO 7y ago

This is the presentation Raoult gave yesterday, publication is coming next week. https://youtu.be/n4J8kydOvbc https://youtu.be/n4J8kydOvbc Link to the powerpoint. Please don't kill the IHU's servers though: it's all in french. https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/COVID-19.pdf https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/wp-content/uploads/20...

aazaa 7y ago
1. The video is linked in the article. 2. The linked PDF is just a generic presentation about COVID-19 testing.
- cm2187 7y ago
  I believe the 6th and last slides are the result of their own testing and experiments. I think you have to watch the video to understand why he is going through other published results on that virus. I understand he is pushing the idea that instead of telling people who feel sick to self isolate and only call a hospital (and get tested) if they have respiratory problems, to instead test them early, and if the are positive, provide them with anti-viral treatments. That way the patient is contagious for less than a week instead of 3 weeks on average.
  - aazaa 7y ago
    > I understand he is pushing the idea that instead of telling people who feel sick to self isolate and only call a hospital (and get tested) if they have respiratory problems, to instead test them early, and if the are positive, provide them with anti-viral treatments. If so, that's about as far away from reporting the results of a successful clinical trial as you can get. The article is fake.

w3mmpp 7y ago

The article links to that research too: https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vTi-g18ftNZUMRAj2SwRPodtscFio7bJ7GdNgbJAGbdfF67WuRJB3ZsidgpidB2eocFHAVjIL-7deJ7/pub https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vTi-g18ftNZUMRAj... Under: "US academic study concurs" half page.

bertil 7y ago

I have never heard of that news source, Connexion France. The language is all over the place. I’d be highly skeptical of that source. The hospital quoted isn’t one of the main institute that would have a direct mandate from the government: Institut Pasteur (in spite of being private) would the reference research center for infectious diseases.

znpy 7y ago
The domain appears to have been registered in 2004. They state they've been around since 2002: https://www.connexionfrance.com/About-Us-Legal-Information https://www.connexionfrance.com/About-Us-Legal-Information
- bertil 7y ago
  That page doesn’t really look like most reasonable media ‘About Us’ page: no by-line, no photos, link to PO boxes or AWS (!), unclear editorial line. I’m happy there is a (generic) name for the editor but the rest wouldn’t really count as a positive to me.
  - heyoni 7y ago
    It'd be easier if you pointed out what about their site set you off into thinking it was fake news conspiracy pushing publication...
greatpatton 7y ago
Institut Pasteur is not the only research body in France regarding infectious diseases... They are directly linked to the Marseille University Hospital (AP-HM) and all the usual public research bodies like INSERM, CNRS. If you want another source than connexion France, you have this article from Le Monde: https://www.lemonde.fr/sciences/article/2020/03/17/la-chloroquine-une-piste-pour-lutter-contre-le-sars-cov-2_6033364_1650684.html https://www.lemonde.fr/sciences/article/2020/03/17/la-chloro... Are you highly skeptical of Le Monde?
- 7y ago

raindeer3 7y ago

Previous thread on the Chinese study https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22601196 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22601196

wolfhumble 7y ago

Any doctors or medical researchers here? I am not, so DON'T take the following as if I personally have any knowledge in this area. So talk to a medical expert about this! A Chinese study from March 9, see the link 1) with a downloadable PDF, say the following in its conclusions: "Hydroxychloroquine was found to be more potent than chloroquine to inhibit SARS-CoV-2 in vitro." Does the French study use Hydroxychloroquine as well? From the article it mentions Hydroxychloroquine but also Chloroquine phosphate. 1) https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciaa237/5801998 https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid...

8bitsrule 7y ago

Didier is very real. "According to the analysis of the publications from 2007 to 2013 ... Didier Raoult appears at the top of the European classification (including Israel) with 18,128 citations.... He totalizes more than 2,300 indexed publications..." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Didier_Raoult https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Didier_Raoult Chloroquine is very real: This Feb 20, 2020 Nature>Cell Research paper mentions the efficacy of chlorquine: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41422-020-0282-0 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41422-020-0282-0

aazaa 7y ago
Chloroquine is real, but in vitro work is a long, long way from human treatment. The paper you linked is an in vitro study only. There isn't even any preliminary animal data.

capkutay 7y ago

Just an FYI doctors are using hydroxychloroquine in the US today to fight C19. This isn’t the only study that suggests chloroquine is a good treatment. Medcram had its own analysis of a different paper from china that said hydroxychloroquine was useful when administered early. However it’s possible new data may present itself in the coming weeks that suggest otherwise. But the type of confirmation you’re looking for is impossible in this critical timeframe.