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Read https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17238350 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17238350 and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22603878 https://news.

by JdeBP 7y ago

Read https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17238350 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17238350 and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22603878 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22603878 in this very discussion.

msla 7y ago
So, to quote: > Platforms with "consoles". These platforms provide a concept of a "console" to applications programs. Consoles support direct screen addressing, to the level of character cells at least, and are accessed through an API that is a first-class part of the overall system API. > Platforms with "terminals". These platforms provide a concept of a "terminal" to applications programs. Terminals are not directly addressed, but are communicated with via byte stream communications protocols, involving control characters and control character sequences. In short, you're deliberately being non-specific. I'd claim that a terminal system plus ncurses is a flexible and reasonably efficient console which is portable between many different systems, on the hosting end and on the client end. I could claim that the IBM block-mode "terminals" are consoles if the system is taken as a whole, but such things are markedly less flexible than what you can accomplish with ncurses, albeit more machine-efficient on the host side. As far as first-class APIs go, you can argue with others about the kernel-vs-OS distinction, and the irrelevance of unbundling in the Open Source world. In short, shipping with ncurses is no more "odd" than shipping with Gtk or, say, a web browser.
- JdeBP 7y ago
  Actually, I'm the one using the specific terminology (from Win32) here. A console is a specific I/O abstraction, widely known as such. Whereas "I'd claim that a terminal system plus ncurses is a console" is your own idiosyncratic nonce definition, in contrast. Console I/O has a demonstrable evolution over the course of the 1980s, as I have already explained several times, a lot of which was to address the shortcomings of the 1960s terminal I/O model.

by JdeBP 7y ago

msla 7y ago

So, to quote: > Platforms with "consoles". These platforms provide a concept of a "console" to applications programs. Consoles support direct screen addressing, to the level of character cells at least, and are accessed through an API that is a first-class part of the overall system API. > Platforms with "terminals". These platforms provide a concept of a "terminal" to applications programs. Terminals are not directly addressed, but are communicated with via byte stream communications protocols, involving control characters and control character sequences. In short, you're deliberately being non-specific. I'd claim that a terminal system plus ncurses is a flexible and reasonably efficient console which is portable between many different systems, on the hosting end and on the client end. I could claim that the IBM block-mode "terminals" are consoles if the system is taken as a whole, but such things are markedly less flexible than what you can accomplish with ncurses, albeit more machine-efficient on the host side. As far as first-class APIs go, you can argue with others about the kernel-vs-OS distinction, and the irrelevance of unbundling in the Open Source world. In short, shipping with ncurses is no more "odd" than shipping with Gtk or, say, a web browser.

JdeBP 7y ago
Actually, I'm the one using the specific terminology (from Win32) here. A console is a specific I/O abstraction, widely known as such. Whereas "I'd claim that a terminal system plus ncurses is a console" is your own idiosyncratic nonce definition, in contrast. Console I/O has a demonstrable evolution over the course of the 1980s, as I have already explained several times, a lot of which was to address the shortcomings of the 1960s terminal I/O model.