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Personally, I think this is incredibly irresponsible. Elon told his workers to stay home even if they feel "slightest bit ill or even uncomfortable" [0]. Yet, a

Personally, I think this is incredibly irresponsible. Elon told his workers to stay home even if they feel "slightest bit ill or even uncomfortable" [0]. Yet, according to the CDC, symptoms may not appear until 2-14 days after exposure [1]. So Tesla employees may be spreading the virus to each other, and the rest of the world, without knowing it. In the Alameda order which describes what "essential businesses" may remain open, the closest loophole I can see that might allow the Tesla factory to stay open is for "Airlines, taxis, and other private transportation providers providing transportation services necessary for Essential Activities and other purposes expressly authorized in this Order" [2]. I think it's more than a stretch to say that building new cars counts as transportation services. Repairing existing Teslas, sure. But I don't think Tesla should be allowed to keep building new cars. And I think if Elon cares about his workers' safety, and the safety of the world, he would ask his employees who are building new cars to stay home. [0] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-tesla-factory/teslas-u-s-factory-to-stay-open-as-coronavirus-lockdown-begins-report-idUSKBN2140Q8 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-tesla-... [1] https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/symptoms-testing/symptoms.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/symptoms-testing/s... [2] http://acphd.org/media/559658/health-officer-order-shelter-in-place-20200316.pdf http://acphd.org/media/559658/health-officer-order-shelter-i...

eganist 7y ago
Judging from the full body of his email (which I'm guessing plenty of people read before it even reached the news judging from how many of my friends sent it to me), it seems like he really doesn't care about his staff. Choice quote: > I will personally be at work, but that's just me. Totally okay if you want to stay at home for any reason. If this isn't the most peer-pressure-y way to tell people to show up, I don't know what is. The head of the company choosing to keep showing up to the office in the middle of an outbreak is the exact opposite of the precedent he should be setting right now. Shoot, he can even tell people he's going to work from home and still secretly come to the office; people would understand. It's his company. Or he could've just not mentioned his plans at all. But by mentioning his plans, his direct reports will still show up, their direct reports will largely still show up, and anyone who doesn't want demerits on their performance reviews will all still show up. No different from an unlimited leave policy where people take no leave. This is absolutely wrong. And hopefully illegal. And I definitely did cancel my Tesla order (RN112815329) because of it.
- steve_adams_86 7y ago
  I agree, what an awful way to pressure your team. I respect you voting with your wallet like that.
  - eganist 7y ago
    Seems the downward pressure from Elon has been successful. > Thousands of workers streamed into the factory Tuesday, many arriving by bus. https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2020-03-18/coronavirus-tesla-fremont-plant-shutdown https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2020-03-18/coronaviru...
- ginsing 7y ago
  The head of the company FORCED for NO REASON mostly close the factory. cmon, whole our SF area is on lockdown now, this is the most stupid hysteria in lost 5 years. And yes, plz dont bullshit about "pandemia" bla-bla-bla. Look into the numbers, and look how many BILLIONS of dollars we are spending cause INSIGNIFICANT number of deaths. Thats thinking actually is absolutely wrong but nots illegal, cause you know stupidity is a thing now.
- koheripbal 7y ago
  I suspect people with vulnerable household members will probably not show up, regardless of their reporting structure.
  - joejerryronnie 7y ago
    Not if they also want to put food on the table.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- lowdose 7y ago
  Even when all his employees get sick the chance someone dies is extremely low. So Elon is entitled to have the opinion that this Wuhan fever is more in our head than actually taking lives at scale. And from that point of view priority number one for him is still progressing humanity further.
dchichkov 7y ago
Super Bowl on Feb 2, was irresponsible. 17k confirmed cases in China at the time, 10x of that unconfirmed. Tesla factory. One has to balance the economic damage and public health risk. And take into consideration that there is a public health risk from economic damage.
- dilyevsky 7y ago
  Sb was at the time of zero community transmissions. Different story now...
  - dchichkov 7y ago
    How do you know? It is not like there was any testing there. Planes evacuating people from Wuhan (also ~47 days ago) were having 1% of virus positives at the time.
    - dilyevsky 7y ago
      Same way i know there wasn’t anyone with bubonic plague. Early existing outbreaks have all been traced directly to china
      - dchichkov 7y ago
        The thing started in China in December, maybe earlier. US population that travels to China tends to be young, active, connected in business circles. Brushes the thing off like a minor cold, without skipping a beat. So community transmission in the US could have been going as early as December, just not in the circles that are particularly affected by that virus.
perl4ever 7y ago
To be fair, other bosses in other places went through that stage and a day or two later decided to tell people to stay home. I wouldn't have a problem being chosen to be one of the "skeleton crew". But I'd have a huge problem with the leader not doing the right thing for the group, namely having most people not come in. The issue isn't just peer pressure, it's giving people the choice at all, pushing them into a conflict of interest. Telling them to do what makes them feels best seems reflexively correct to many people not just Musk, but it's not. As far as new cars, there were no new cars for civilians during WWII, right?
dilyevsky 7y ago
Irresponsible? From a company that sticks glorified lane assist and touts it as full autonomous driving (“pending regulatory approval” lol)? Shocked pikachu face
- sjwright 7y ago
  There’s plenty of reason to criticise Tesla without relying on false narratives. With a couple of rare historical exceptions Tesla do reliably distinguish AP and FSD. (Also, the generic term for what AP does is lane centering, not lane assist.)
  - ironmagma 7y ago
    AP and FSD are both arguably referable to as “glorified lane assist” considering how well they work. Both are incredibly misleading names at the very least, which speaks to the “irresponsible” thesis.
    - sjwright 7y ago
      And a car is a glorified tricycle.
xkjkls 7y ago
They apparently can't build new cars: https://twitter.com/ACSOSheriffs/status/1240062681635123201 https://twitter.com/ACSOSheriffs/status/1240062681635123201 Minimum operations for auto manufacturers only include replacement parts.
- eganist 7y ago
  I'd like to see the police in San Mateo and Alameda prohibit people from entering the building unless their roles fit said needs. It'd be a good demonstration against reckless management.
  - xkjkls 7y ago
    I doubt it will come to that. I'd be shocked if Tesla even wants to make cars. Who is buying $50,000 cars now?
lacker 7y ago
The definition of “essential business” is extremely broad. It even includes cannabis stores. Tesla is a whole lot more important to our country and our economy than keeping the cannabis stores open.
- HeyLaughingBoy 7y ago
  Not to the people who need it for medicinal purposes.
- elliotec 7y ago
  No it doesn’t. It explicitly does not include cannabis dispensaries. And cannabis is medicine, Tesla is... fancy cars.
  - lacker 7y ago
    It does in fact include cannabis dispensaries. https://www.kron4.com/news/san-francisco-cannabis-deemed-as-an-essential-medicine-dispensaries-to-remain-open/ https://www.kron4.com/news/san-francisco-cannabis-deemed-as-...
    - elliotec 7y ago
      It does now. There was some back and forth for a day or so and dispensaries I work with got some emails to the contrary before the official announcement. At this point all legal states deem it essential and most are legalizing delivery too.

eganist 7y ago

Judging from the full body of his email (which I'm guessing plenty of people read before it even reached the news judging from how many of my friends sent it to me), it seems like he really doesn't care about his staff. Choice quote: > I will personally be at work, but that's just me. Totally okay if you want to stay at home for any reason. If this isn't the most peer-pressure-y way to tell people to show up, I don't know what is. The head of the company choosing to keep showing up to the office in the middle of an outbreak is the exact opposite of the precedent he should be setting right now. Shoot, he can even tell people he's going to work from home and still secretly come to the office; people would understand. It's his company. Or he could've just not mentioned his plans at all. But by mentioning his plans, his direct reports will still show up, their direct reports will largely still show up, and anyone who doesn't want demerits on their performance reviews will all still show up. No different from an unlimited leave policy where people take no leave. This is absolutely wrong. And hopefully illegal. And I definitely did cancel my Tesla order (RN112815329) because of it.

steve_adams_86 7y ago
I agree, what an awful way to pressure your team. I respect you voting with your wallet like that.
- eganist 7y ago
  Seems the downward pressure from Elon has been successful. > Thousands of workers streamed into the factory Tuesday, many arriving by bus. https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2020-03-18/coronavirus-tesla-fremont-plant-shutdown https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2020-03-18/coronaviru...
ginsing 7y ago
The head of the company FORCED for NO REASON mostly close the factory. cmon, whole our SF area is on lockdown now, this is the most stupid hysteria in lost 5 years. And yes, plz dont bullshit about "pandemia" bla-bla-bla. Look into the numbers, and look how many BILLIONS of dollars we are spending cause INSIGNIFICANT number of deaths. Thats thinking actually is absolutely wrong but nots illegal, cause you know stupidity is a thing now.
koheripbal 7y ago
I suspect people with vulnerable household members will probably not show up, regardless of their reporting structure.
- joejerryronnie 7y ago
  Not if they also want to put food on the table.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
lowdose 7y ago
Even when all his employees get sick the chance someone dies is extremely low. So Elon is entitled to have the opinion that this Wuhan fever is more in our head than actually taking lives at scale. And from that point of view priority number one for him is still progressing humanity further.

dchichkov 7y ago

Super Bowl on Feb 2, was irresponsible. 17k confirmed cases in China at the time, 10x of that unconfirmed. Tesla factory. One has to balance the economic damage and public health risk. And take into consideration that there is a public health risk from economic damage.

dilyevsky 7y ago
Sb was at the time of zero community transmissions. Different story now...
- dchichkov 7y ago
  How do you know? It is not like there was any testing there. Planes evacuating people from Wuhan (also ~47 days ago) were having 1% of virus positives at the time.
  - dilyevsky 7y ago
    Same way i know there wasn’t anyone with bubonic plague. Early existing outbreaks have all been traced directly to china
    - dchichkov 7y ago
      The thing started in China in December, maybe earlier. US population that travels to China tends to be young, active, connected in business circles. Brushes the thing off like a minor cold, without skipping a beat. So community transmission in the US could have been going as early as December, just not in the circles that are particularly affected by that virus.

perl4ever 7y ago

To be fair, other bosses in other places went through that stage and a day or two later decided to tell people to stay home. I wouldn't have a problem being chosen to be one of the "skeleton crew". But I'd have a huge problem with the leader not doing the right thing for the group, namely having most people not come in. The issue isn't just peer pressure, it's giving people the choice at all, pushing them into a conflict of interest. Telling them to do what makes them feels best seems reflexively correct to many people not just Musk, but it's not. As far as new cars, there were no new cars for civilians during WWII, right?

dilyevsky 7y ago

Irresponsible? From a company that sticks glorified lane assist and touts it as full autonomous driving (“pending regulatory approval” lol)? Shocked pikachu face

sjwright 7y ago
There’s plenty of reason to criticise Tesla without relying on false narratives. With a couple of rare historical exceptions Tesla do reliably distinguish AP and FSD. (Also, the generic term for what AP does is lane centering, not lane assist.)
- ironmagma 7y ago
  AP and FSD are both arguably referable to as “glorified lane assist” considering how well they work. Both are incredibly misleading names at the very least, which speaks to the “irresponsible” thesis.
  - sjwright 7y ago
    And a car is a glorified tricycle.

xkjkls 7y ago

They apparently can't build new cars: https://twitter.com/ACSOSheriffs/status/1240062681635123201 https://twitter.com/ACSOSheriffs/status/1240062681635123201 Minimum operations for auto manufacturers only include replacement parts.

eganist 7y ago
I'd like to see the police in San Mateo and Alameda prohibit people from entering the building unless their roles fit said needs. It'd be a good demonstration against reckless management.
- xkjkls 7y ago
  I doubt it will come to that. I'd be shocked if Tesla even wants to make cars. Who is buying $50,000 cars now?

lacker 7y ago

The definition of “essential business” is extremely broad. It even includes cannabis stores. Tesla is a whole lot more important to our country and our economy than keeping the cannabis stores open.

HeyLaughingBoy 7y ago
Not to the people who need it for medicinal purposes.
elliotec 7y ago
No it doesn’t. It explicitly does not include cannabis dispensaries. And cannabis is medicine, Tesla is... fancy cars.
- lacker 7y ago
  It does in fact include cannabis dispensaries. https://www.kron4.com/news/san-francisco-cannabis-deemed-as-an-essential-medicine-dispensaries-to-remain-open/ https://www.kron4.com/news/san-francisco-cannabis-deemed-as-...
  - elliotec 7y ago
    It does now. There was some back and forth for a day or so and dispensaries I work with got some emails to the contrary before the official announcement. At this point all legal states deem it essential and most are legalizing delivery too.