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The same wiki source in Chinese language though gives a completely different picture and with much more information and sources on how the terms is used in the

The same wiki source in Chinese language though gives a completely different picture and with much more information and sources on how the terms is used in the last hundred year in Chinese language. https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E4%B8%9C%E4%BA%9A%E7%97%85%E5%A4%AB https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E4%B8%9C%E4%BA%9A%E7%97%85%E5... >1903年前后，以梁启超为代表的中国知识分子，扩展西方的“中国病夫论”的内涵。梁启超在《新民说》第一次用“病夫”来形容所有的中国人，说：“夫中国一东方病夫也，其麻木不仁久矣。”《新民说》一发表，用“病夫”来形容中国精神落后、麻木不仁，也成为舆论界的时髦。1903年，陈天华写作《警世钟》，就说：“外洋人不骂（中国人）为东方病夫，就骂为野蛮贱种。”[5] >1905年，小说《孽海花》出版，其作者曾朴即公开署名“东亚病夫”；此书风行一时，是当时顶尖的畅销书，“东亚病夫”一词也迅速流传开来。事实上，曾朴本人使用“东亚病夫”来自况很大程度上是因为他本人的身体不好。此后，中国人自己将“东亚病夫”与国民体质问题纠缠到一起，换句话说，这是一种中国人自己扣自己的帽子。在中国人的心目中，“东亚病夫”从来就是外国人对中华儿女的蔑称。许多中国人对“东亚病夫”一词的理解是清末中国人吸鸦片导致身体瘦弱，所以遭外国人轻视，也近似于人们所说的“鸦片烟鬼”[2][5][6]；现代也有中国人也将严重二手烟害、空气污染及黑心食品视为东亚病夫再现[7]。 In the end it doesn't matter which entity did the speaker of this term intend to refer to. The recipients have their own judgement due to the culture they raised from.

ardy42 7y ago
> In the end it doesn't matter which entity did the speaker of this term intend to refer to. The recipients have their own judgement due to the culture they raised from. But it does matter. Does an utterance mean what the speaker intended it to mean, or what the listener understood it to mean? The answer is both.
- theseadroid 7y ago
  Say I speak a foreign language with very important message to an audience that doesn't understand this language at all. Nobody in the audience understood the message after I spoke. Does what I said matter? I would consider the communication has failed completely. edit: But I guess WSJ wasn't speaking to Chinese. Anyway I can only see the misunderstanding deepens and deepens between U.S. and China. Language is one of the contributing factor. Western media is not incentivized to report truth but stories with most clicks. And it's hard for regular westerners to verify those stories without understanding Mandarin or talk to Chinese.

ardy42 7y ago

> In the end it doesn't matter which entity did the speaker of this term intend to refer to. The recipients have their own judgement due to the culture they raised from. But it does matter. Does an utterance mean what the speaker intended it to mean, or what the listener understood it to mean? The answer is both.

theseadroid 7y ago
Say I speak a foreign language with very important message to an audience that doesn't understand this language at all. Nobody in the audience understood the message after I spoke. Does what I said matter? I would consider the communication has failed completely. edit: But I guess WSJ wasn't speaking to Chinese. Anyway I can only see the misunderstanding deepens and deepens between U.S. and China. Language is one of the contributing factor. Western media is not incentivized to report truth but stories with most clicks. And it's hard for regular westerners to verify those stories without understanding Mandarin or talk to Chinese.