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"Wrong" or "worse" is usually measured as a product of the impact to the customer, measured in value: that is, when a potential conflict of interest results in

"Wrong" or "worse" is usually measured as a product of the impact to the customer, measured in value: that is, when a potential conflict of interest results in a lower cost the consumer, it's usually deemed acceptable. What is a similar measurement for information? Grocery stores only sell physical goods; they don't, for example, determine what medical information you see, or what information about political candidates you consume... those are things that search engines do. So you see why this could be "worse" and "wrong": there isn't a good way to measure the impact and the scope of influence is much larger.

akersten 7y ago
> What is a similar measurement for information? Grocery stores only sell physical goods; they don't, for example, determine what medical information you see, or what information about political candidates you consume... those are things that search engines do. Okay, but that's a different discussion. Google showing Google Maps first instead of Apple Maps on a search for "maps" is not related to the kind of shadowy political subterfuge you're referencing here. I still don't see what's wrong with highlighting your own products to your customers, which is the discussion here.
- d2wa 7y ago
  The Apple Maps service doesn’t have a web presence, so they’re not even trying to compete with Google Maps on the web. A map service is objectively more useful than a promotional page trying to sell iOS devices with a built-in Maps app.
  - taffer 7y ago
    > The Apple Maps service doesn’t have a web presence It kind of has: https://maps.apple.com/place?address=San%20Francisco https://maps.apple.com/place?address=San%20Francisco
    - d2wa 7y ago
      No, it doesn’t: https://maps.apple.com/robots.txt https://maps.apple.com/robots.txt
      - wolco 7y ago
        The robot file doesn't want you scraping actual locations. So it does have a way of accessing the maps over the web. But because they dis-allow locations they don't compete with google for location based queries. Everyone is wrong or right, depending on if your glass is half full or empty.
  - stronglikedan 7y ago
    > Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith. [0] Replace "maps" with the names of any competing products from both companies with a web presence that can be linked to in search results, if you want to genuinely rebut the point. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

akersten 7y ago

> What is a similar measurement for information? Grocery stores only sell physical goods; they don't, for example, determine what medical information you see, or what information about political candidates you consume... those are things that search engines do. Okay, but that's a different discussion. Google showing Google Maps first instead of Apple Maps on a search for "maps" is not related to the kind of shadowy political subterfuge you're referencing here. I still don't see what's wrong with highlighting your own products to your customers, which is the discussion here.

d2wa 7y ago
The Apple Maps service doesn’t have a web presence, so they’re not even trying to compete with Google Maps on the web. A map service is objectively more useful than a promotional page trying to sell iOS devices with a built-in Maps app.
- taffer 7y ago
  > The Apple Maps service doesn’t have a web presence It kind of has: https://maps.apple.com/place?address=San%20Francisco https://maps.apple.com/place?address=San%20Francisco
  - d2wa 7y ago
    No, it doesn’t: https://maps.apple.com/robots.txt https://maps.apple.com/robots.txt
    - wolco 7y ago
      The robot file doesn't want you scraping actual locations. So it does have a way of accessing the maps over the web. But because they dis-allow locations they don't compete with google for location based queries. Everyone is wrong or right, depending on if your glass is half full or empty.
- stronglikedan 7y ago
  > Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith. [0] Replace "maps" with the names of any competing products from both companies with a web presence that can be linked to in search results, if you want to genuinely rebut the point. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html