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> He's [Musk] got a physics degree and has the raw intelligence and passion to understand aerospace engineering. musk was nearly laughed out of early meetings

> He's [Musk] got a physics degree and has the raw intelligence and passion to understand aerospace engineering. musk was nearly laughed out of early meetings because he basically knew nothing about aerospace engineering and was viewed as just a guy with a lot of money, enthusiasm, and naivety. i have never seen any indication that he understands as much as people freely give him credit for. > Bezos ... is not technical. bezos has a degree in electrical engineering and computer science from princeton. not sure what you consider technical.

cowmix 7y ago
Well, I'm not sure what part of the SpaceX timeline you are talking about but his "money, enthusiasm, and naivety" certainly has brought the company very, very far in the past 17+ years.
- xkjkls 7y ago
  It's still not a profitable company with alot of debt to payoff and a valuation to justify. I don't know if we can consider 17 years without any profitable sustainability a success.
  - avmich 7y ago
    Amazon roughly fits this profile, with their habit of investing money in expanding markets instead of keeping profits. SpaceX is the only company which returns first stage after flight, in workable condition. In today's launch industry it's like a license to print money. It's really hard not to consider them profitable, even if they are private and don't show financial results.
    - xkjkls 7y ago
      Amazon has only been unprofitable one year since 2001, and cash flow positive every single year. They are the exact opposite of Tesla because they didn't require returning to the capital markets every two quarters. > In today's launch industry it's like a license to print money. It's really hard not to consider them profitable, even if they are private and don't show financial results. Every report on their financial results says they are unprofitable, and they continue to want to raise more and more money.
  - nickik 7y ago
    It blows my mind that people in the modern world can still think this way.
- fragmede 7y ago
  As the story goes, Musk, interested in space, approaches the Russians and asks to buy an ICBM. The Russians laughed him out of the room. A year later, SpaceX was founded. 17 years later, here we are! https://www.inverse.com/article/34976-spacex-ceo-elon-musk-tried-to-buy-icbm-rockets-from-russia https://www.inverse.com/article/34976-spacex-ceo-elon-musk-t... https://www.fastcompany.com/3006829/spacex-founder-elon-musk-considered-buying-russian-ballistic-missiles-nukes https://www.fastcompany.com/3006829/spacex-founder-elon-musk...
avmich 7y ago
> musk was nearly laughed out of early meetings I'm almost sure he'd be laughed out of many meetings today, if his name would be different - i.e. nobody would think he's behind SpaceX vision. Not all meetings, but many. Imagining an aerospace professional - somebody in a position of Tony Bruno talking with a guy John Smith, when that John Smith describes similar vision and approaches to SpaceX, I can too easily imagine that aerospace professional dismissing him too easily. That's not about Musk. That's about modern aerospace. > i have never seen any indication that he understands as much as people freely give him credit for. Hm. I didn't catch Musk on too blatant physical errors (I might be not a perfect examiner though :) ), but the thing is, "the rocket science is not a rocket science". Building rockets these days is many, many times easier that half a century ago. You don't need Einstein's level of sharpness to get pretty good results. > bezos has a degree in electrical engineering and computer science from princeton. not sure what you consider technical. Well, title of CEO in Amazon may have a large negative effect on technical abilities of a person. I've seen people with cum laude science Ph.D's from top world technical universities which are much happier with management and don't demonstrate technical abilities too much. So, "Bezos ...is not technical" may be unrelated to his degrees.
- phpnode 7y ago
  * Tory Bruno[0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tory_Bruno https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tory_Bruno
starpilot 7y ago
Yeah, EE/CS in aerospace is non-technical in this context. The key is physical understanding of mechanics, which programmers seem to lack. Understanding concepts of spatial vectors, summing up forces, adding/removing energy and the effects on temperature, you need to have a tangble feel of these concepts, as well as be able to calculate them rigorously, to design rockets. A physics student would have this, while someone whose primary coursework was on OS design, data structures, optimizing memory usage etc. would not. It's a very different world. I don't think it's fair, but in aerospace companies, the programmers, even doing important avionics work, are considered closer to IT than they are to core vehicle design. If you got rid of all of them you could still design a vehicle, as we did before.
- nikofeyn 7y ago
  you didn't specify that you meant technical in aerospace. even then, many technical people have the skills to understand other fields just fine, especially to manage. and just to note, bezos also studied physics.
nickik 7y ago
> i have never seen any indication that he understands as much as people freely give him credit for. So your disregarding what every single engineer that work for him says. It seem like you are going out of your way to ignore evidence. Elon is and was the Chief Engineer on the Falcon 1/Falcon 9 rocket. That is a fact.

cowmix 7y ago

Well, I'm not sure what part of the SpaceX timeline you are talking about but his "money, enthusiasm, and naivety" certainly has brought the company very, very far in the past 17+ years.

xkjkls 7y ago
It's still not a profitable company with alot of debt to payoff and a valuation to justify. I don't know if we can consider 17 years without any profitable sustainability a success.
- avmich 7y ago
  Amazon roughly fits this profile, with their habit of investing money in expanding markets instead of keeping profits. SpaceX is the only company which returns first stage after flight, in workable condition. In today's launch industry it's like a license to print money. It's really hard not to consider them profitable, even if they are private and don't show financial results.
  - xkjkls 7y ago
    Amazon has only been unprofitable one year since 2001, and cash flow positive every single year. They are the exact opposite of Tesla because they didn't require returning to the capital markets every two quarters. > In today's launch industry it's like a license to print money. It's really hard not to consider them profitable, even if they are private and don't show financial results. Every report on their financial results says they are unprofitable, and they continue to want to raise more and more money.
- nickik 7y ago
  It blows my mind that people in the modern world can still think this way.
fragmede 7y ago
As the story goes, Musk, interested in space, approaches the Russians and asks to buy an ICBM. The Russians laughed him out of the room. A year later, SpaceX was founded. 17 years later, here we are! https://www.inverse.com/article/34976-spacex-ceo-elon-musk-tried-to-buy-icbm-rockets-from-russia https://www.inverse.com/article/34976-spacex-ceo-elon-musk-t... https://www.fastcompany.com/3006829/spacex-founder-elon-musk-considered-buying-russian-ballistic-missiles-nukes https://www.fastcompany.com/3006829/spacex-founder-elon-musk...

avmich 7y ago

> musk was nearly laughed out of early meetings I'm almost sure he'd be laughed out of many meetings today, if his name would be different - i.e. nobody would think he's behind SpaceX vision. Not all meetings, but many. Imagining an aerospace professional - somebody in a position of Tony Bruno talking with a guy John Smith, when that John Smith describes similar vision and approaches to SpaceX, I can too easily imagine that aerospace professional dismissing him too easily. That's not about Musk. That's about modern aerospace. > i have never seen any indication that he understands as much as people freely give him credit for. Hm. I didn't catch Musk on too blatant physical errors (I might be not a perfect examiner though :) ), but the thing is, "the rocket science is not a rocket science". Building rockets these days is many, many times easier that half a century ago. You don't need Einstein's level of sharpness to get pretty good results. > bezos has a degree in electrical engineering and computer science from princeton. not sure what you consider technical. Well, title of CEO in Amazon may have a large negative effect on technical abilities of a person. I've seen people with cum laude science Ph.D's from top world technical universities which are much happier with management and don't demonstrate technical abilities too much. So, "Bezos ...is not technical" may be unrelated to his degrees.

phpnode 7y ago
* Tory Bruno[0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tory_Bruno https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tory_Bruno

starpilot 7y ago

Yeah, EE/CS in aerospace is non-technical in this context. The key is physical understanding of mechanics, which programmers seem to lack. Understanding concepts of spatial vectors, summing up forces, adding/removing energy and the effects on temperature, you need to have a tangble feel of these concepts, as well as be able to calculate them rigorously, to design rockets. A physics student would have this, while someone whose primary coursework was on OS design, data structures, optimizing memory usage etc. would not. It's a very different world. I don't think it's fair, but in aerospace companies, the programmers, even doing important avionics work, are considered closer to IT than they are to core vehicle design. If you got rid of all of them you could still design a vehicle, as we did before.

nikofeyn 7y ago
you didn't specify that you meant technical in aerospace. even then, many technical people have the skills to understand other fields just fine, especially to manage. and just to note, bezos also studied physics.

nickik 7y ago

> i have never seen any indication that he understands as much as people freely give him credit for. So your disregarding what every single engineer that work for him says. It seem like you are going out of your way to ignore evidence. Elon is and was the Chief Engineer on the Falcon 1/Falcon 9 rocket. That is a fact.