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It’s concerning how polarized any thread about China becomes. Normally rational calm people expressing extreme views (eg punishing innocent family members as de

by yibg 7y ago

It’s concerning how polarized any thread about China becomes. Normally rational calm people expressing extreme views (eg punishing innocent family members as deterrent). I wasn’t old enough at the time but I imagine this is what thing felt like during the Cold War. Why must we always have a foreign enemy? Be it soviets, muslims, mexicans or now China.

dang 7y ago
It's human nature, and gets worse with fear. Self-work can to some extent counteract it, for example by seeing in oneself what one decries in others.
- yibg 7y ago
  It is. It’s perhaps also the part of us that if we can change could do the world the most good. Also seems a lot of folks takes a stance on China and view anything they do through that lens only. Those that are anti China seems unable to find anything China does to be positive. Similarly those that defend China seems unable to criticize China at all. Because of these default positions take, more nuanced discussions become ideological ones.
loyukfai 7y ago
My feeling is that it's more often than not the norm, society-wide speaking. However, at places like HN, usually people and discussions are more rational and fact-based. I've seen this happening in other circumstances and on other topics, that people who are educated and respected becoming mindless drones, or loss a significant portion of their reasoning ability and rationality whenever a certain note is played. Sometimes decency is lost too. But then, I expect better on HN and I'm glad the moderator(s?) is doing something about it. Cheers.
- yibg 7y ago
  Agreed, and I too expected better from the HN crowd. Also agreed the moderators here are doing a great job. I don't know what the solution is. Maybe we should all strive to understand the other side better instead of casting quick judgement. Environmental and other issues aside, perhaps this is one of the benefits of the recent increase (not counting the current issue with COVID19) of global travel and tourism.
elefanten 7y ago
I haven't been reading HN long enough to experience other eras of geopolitical strain, but I have a guess about one part of the puzzle. A non-trivial part of the tension between these two powers centers on and around technology, science and industries on the cutting edge. The sensitive topics touch on many of the readers' primary domains.
ailideex 7y ago
> Why must we always have a foreign enemy? Be it soviets, muslims, mexicans or now China. I don't know? Why must "we"? Can't China just get it's shit in order? Is it too much to ask for?
- yibg 7y ago
  "we" is the generic we, as in whoever is reading this. China is no different, they've been pointing at external influences; typically the US as the bad guys for a long time. But this response is the kind of thing I'm talking about. I'm sure you have legitimate reasons to have a negative view of China, but discussions just devolve into emotionally charged rhetoric that doesn't go anywhere. How am I supposed to respond to this in a constructive way?
  - ailideex 7y ago
    Most problems China has with other entities and other entities have with China can be solved by the communist party of china just basically stopping their shit. I think it is okay to get a bit emotional if the whole world economy is plunged into the gutter because Xi Jinping conducts himself like insolent prissy spoilt child in need of a good talking to by an adult. And maybe if his parents did their job the whole world would not be in this state now. So yes, I am fucking emotional about this. Billions of people have to suffer because of Xi Jinping and his party.
- kjaftaedi 7y ago
  This isn't a China problem. Nearly all government leaders' first reaction is try to downplay disasters.. after all they are politicians, not science experts. Did you not watch Chernobyl? It's literally the same plot. Even in this particular case, the Chinese govt. wasn't the only one trying to downplay this. The US government did the exact same thing even after China had already come to its senses.
  - ailideex 7y ago
    > Nearly all government leaders' first reaction is try to downplay disasters.. after all they are politicians, not science experts. There is a difference between the capacity of US and EU to suppress information and the capacity of authoritarian Chinese State to do this. The media in US and EU does not take direction from the Government. > The US government did the exact same thing even after China had already come to its senses. Did the US govt allow wet markets with live wild animals to operate in China for the political gain of Xi Jinping and China? Did the US govt downplaying this change the reporting of the media? Did the US order samples destroyed and ordered laboratories to not release information? No? Stop running cover for Xi Jinping.

by yibg 7y ago

dang 7y ago

It's human nature, and gets worse with fear. Self-work can to some extent counteract it, for example by seeing in oneself what one decries in others.

yibg 7y ago
It is. It’s perhaps also the part of us that if we can change could do the world the most good. Also seems a lot of folks takes a stance on China and view anything they do through that lens only. Those that are anti China seems unable to find anything China does to be positive. Similarly those that defend China seems unable to criticize China at all. Because of these default positions take, more nuanced discussions become ideological ones.

loyukfai 7y ago

My feeling is that it's more often than not the norm, society-wide speaking. However, at places like HN, usually people and discussions are more rational and fact-based. I've seen this happening in other circumstances and on other topics, that people who are educated and respected becoming mindless drones, or loss a significant portion of their reasoning ability and rationality whenever a certain note is played. Sometimes decency is lost too. But then, I expect better on HN and I'm glad the moderator(s?) is doing something about it. Cheers.

yibg 7y ago
Agreed, and I too expected better from the HN crowd. Also agreed the moderators here are doing a great job. I don't know what the solution is. Maybe we should all strive to understand the other side better instead of casting quick judgement. Environmental and other issues aside, perhaps this is one of the benefits of the recent increase (not counting the current issue with COVID19) of global travel and tourism.

elefanten 7y ago

I haven't been reading HN long enough to experience other eras of geopolitical strain, but I have a guess about one part of the puzzle. A non-trivial part of the tension between these two powers centers on and around technology, science and industries on the cutting edge. The sensitive topics touch on many of the readers' primary domains.

ailideex 7y ago

> Why must we always have a foreign enemy? Be it soviets, muslims, mexicans or now China. I don't know? Why must "we"? Can't China just get it's shit in order? Is it too much to ask for?

yibg 7y ago
"we" is the generic we, as in whoever is reading this. China is no different, they've been pointing at external influences; typically the US as the bad guys for a long time. But this response is the kind of thing I'm talking about. I'm sure you have legitimate reasons to have a negative view of China, but discussions just devolve into emotionally charged rhetoric that doesn't go anywhere. How am I supposed to respond to this in a constructive way?
- ailideex 7y ago
  Most problems China has with other entities and other entities have with China can be solved by the communist party of china just basically stopping their shit. I think it is okay to get a bit emotional if the whole world economy is plunged into the gutter because Xi Jinping conducts himself like insolent prissy spoilt child in need of a good talking to by an adult. And maybe if his parents did their job the whole world would not be in this state now. So yes, I am fucking emotional about this. Billions of people have to suffer because of Xi Jinping and his party.
kjaftaedi 7y ago
This isn't a China problem. Nearly all government leaders' first reaction is try to downplay disasters.. after all they are politicians, not science experts. Did you not watch Chernobyl? It's literally the same plot. Even in this particular case, the Chinese govt. wasn't the only one trying to downplay this. The US government did the exact same thing even after China had already come to its senses.
- ailideex 7y ago
  > Nearly all government leaders' first reaction is try to downplay disasters.. after all they are politicians, not science experts. There is a difference between the capacity of US and EU to suppress information and the capacity of authoritarian Chinese State to do this. The media in US and EU does not take direction from the Government. > The US government did the exact same thing even after China had already come to its senses. Did the US govt allow wet markets with live wild animals to operate in China for the political gain of Xi Jinping and China? Did the US govt downplaying this change the reporting of the media? Did the US order samples destroyed and ordered laboratories to not release information? No? Stop running cover for Xi Jinping.