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You seem to be living in a different factual world than the rest of us, where ICU cases are in hallways and surgical suites is not "over capacity", and leaving

You seem to be living in a different factual world than the rest of us, where ICU cases are in hallways and surgical suites is not "over capacity", and leaving people to die of suffocation without standard lifesaving treatment is not unusual.

thu2111 7y ago
I'm going to be giving up on this thread in a moment because people aren't even reading what I'm reading and definitely aren't answering in good faith. The original claim was that people over the age of 80 aren't being treated because they don't have the capacity for it. I queried if they were sure about that, because the Italian government was saying that's not true. An Italian has now replied to that same post also stating it's not true and the international media has exaggerated a comment by a single doctor. That's the factual world. In another thread a guy claimed the Italian system was "at over 200% capacity". This turned out to be an exaggeration of another claim by a single doctor, not a real statistic. I've been querying these sorts of claims by directly citing detailed testimony from the guy who literally runs all of ICU in Lombardy, the worst struck place in the whole world. He is saying, as clear as can be, he doesn't believe people with a chance of recovery have been turned away due to lack of beds. This doesn't mean they haven't increased beds via drastic measures or taken other actions to increase capacity. It means that as of the time that report was made, he didn't believe they'd run out of at-present capacity and had to turn people away at the hospital entrance. Maybe he's wrong and not living in the same factual world as the rest of us. I don't know. But I'd hope he understands the state of his own hospitals given his job.
- fspeech 7y ago
  Lombardy is not the worst hit place so far. Wuhan is.
  - thu2111 7y ago
    Sorry, I meant "at the moment". Wuhan is apparently now in the tail end (if you believe the PRC). But I didn't say that. Precise communication is hard!

thu2111 7y ago

I'm going to be giving up on this thread in a moment because people aren't even reading what I'm reading and definitely aren't answering in good faith. The original claim was that people over the age of 80 aren't being treated because they don't have the capacity for it. I queried if they were sure about that, because the Italian government was saying that's not true. An Italian has now replied to that same post also stating it's not true and the international media has exaggerated a comment by a single doctor. That's the factual world. In another thread a guy claimed the Italian system was "at over 200% capacity". This turned out to be an exaggeration of another claim by a single doctor, not a real statistic. I've been querying these sorts of claims by directly citing detailed testimony from the guy who literally runs all of ICU in Lombardy, the worst struck place in the whole world. He is saying, as clear as can be, he doesn't believe people with a chance of recovery have been turned away due to lack of beds. This doesn't mean they haven't increased beds via drastic measures or taken other actions to increase capacity. It means that as of the time that report was made, he didn't believe they'd run out of at-present capacity and had to turn people away at the hospital entrance. Maybe he's wrong and not living in the same factual world as the rest of us. I don't know. But I'd hope he understands the state of his own hospitals given his job.

fspeech 7y ago
Lombardy is not the worst hit place so far. Wuhan is.
- thu2111 7y ago
  Sorry, I meant "at the moment". Wuhan is apparently now in the tail end (if you believe the PRC). But I didn't say that. Precise communication is hard!