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America will surely retaliate. Here's a timeline for those who haven't followed this: Feb 3rd: WSJ publishes opinion piece titled "China Is the Real Sick Man

by Leary 7y ago

America will surely retaliate. Here's a timeline for those who haven't followed this: Feb 3rd: WSJ publishes opinion piece titled "China Is the Real Sick Man of Asia" Feb 19th: China expels three China-based WSJ reporters March 2nd: America limits journalists from Chinese state media from 160 to 100

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
reaperducer 7y ago
America will surely retaliate. No. There are thousands and thousands of journalists working for foreign governments, friendly and hostile, in the United States. Some hostile foreign governments even operate domestic broadcasting operations in America. (China, Russia, etc...) The worst thing that's ever been done in recent memory is requiring those operations to register as foreign agents. And I think at one time there was a move to limit the Kremlin's cadre to something like 1,000 people. But I might be remembering that part wrong.
- Leary 7y ago
  Mike Pompeo on March 2nd: “Our goal is reciprocity. As we have done in other areas of the U.S.-China relationship, we seek to establish a long-overdue level playing field,” Pompeo said in a statement to CNBC about the cap. “It is our hope that this action will spur Beijing to adopt a more fair and reciprocal approach to U.S. and other foreign press in China.” Reciprocity = you limit our journalist we'll limit yours. I expect a ban on those 100 remaining Chinese state media journalists.
  - ilikehurdles 7y ago
    What a ridiculously stupid goal. If we had a goal of reciprocity with every authoritarian dictatorship we'd end up enacting their policies until our government looks no different from our adversaries'.
    - azinman2 7y ago
      Assuming it’s done on a per-country basis, how else do you not get taken advantage of?
      - scarejunba 7y ago
        The way it was done in the past is by being ridiculously stronger than the other participant. So you let your Pakistani or Iraqi counterpart make a big show to appear strong to their people and you do nothing because you still have them under your thumb. Unfortunately, China is now one of America’s peers so it’s necessary to establish the level playing field.
      - DiogenesKynikos 7y ago
        You can't force other countries to behave how you'd like. Some countries don't have freedom of the press. The United States should not be in the business of restricting freedom of the press in order to pressure other countries to respect it. The goal is for the United States to follow the principles laid down in the Bill of Rights. Throwing those out in order to pressure other countries is a terrible idea.
theseadroid 7y ago
Just wanna emphasize that there's historical contest with the words Sick Man of Asia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sick_man_of_Asia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sick_man_of_Asia The phrase reminds any Chinese about China's darkest history in 500 years.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
osazuwa 7y ago
For context, "sick man of Asia" is up there with the n-word and drawing pictures of Mohammad in terms of its ability to offend a group of people. China has a history of ethnic and national identity that is closely tied to narratives about the superiority of the Chinese people. The late-Qing and 20th century decline of China's stature in the world, particularly to Western barbarians and the historically 2nd-fiddle-playing Japan was a huge blow to this narrative and it left Chinese identity reeling. This "sick man of Asia" was an insult calculated not just to justify imperialist incursions into China, but also to twist this particular knife and break the Chinese people's morale. Since then, China's sense of identity has centered on defending the culture and the people from foreigners who want to make an innately superior people seem inferior out of jealousy and malice. Ever other TV show and movie in China is about fighting and defeating foreigners who call China "sick man of Asia". Calling China sick man of Asia during a pandemic that started in China (something they were bound to be embarrassed about) makes one think the writers of that piece were trying to get as extreme a reaction as possible from the Chinese side. Honestly, I thought it would be worse.
- wesleywt 7y ago
  Calling a country a sick man has no relation to the sickness of their people but the trouble of their government. The Ottoman Empire was the sick man of Europe/Middle East referring to their collapsing empire. China might be the sick man of Asia if rumours of their massively slowing economy is true.
  - theseadroid 7y ago
    Sick Man of Asia though was mainly referring to the opioid addicted Chinese population at that time.
    - ardy42 7y ago
      > Sick Man of Asia though was mainly referring to the opioid addicted Chinese population at that time. Was it? I thought that it mainly referred to the weakness and dysfunction of the Imperial Chinese government, which was a major contributing factor to that.
dirtyid 7y ago
Feb 2nd: US designates 5 Chinese media companies as outlets as government entities. It's widely believed the expelling of the three WSJ report was retaliation to that.

by Leary 7y ago

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

reaperducer 7y ago

America will surely retaliate. No. There are thousands and thousands of journalists working for foreign governments, friendly and hostile, in the United States. Some hostile foreign governments even operate domestic broadcasting operations in America. (China, Russia, etc...) The worst thing that's ever been done in recent memory is requiring those operations to register as foreign agents. And I think at one time there was a move to limit the Kremlin's cadre to something like 1,000 people. But I might be remembering that part wrong.

Leary 7y ago
Mike Pompeo on March 2nd: “Our goal is reciprocity. As we have done in other areas of the U.S.-China relationship, we seek to establish a long-overdue level playing field,” Pompeo said in a statement to CNBC about the cap. “It is our hope that this action will spur Beijing to adopt a more fair and reciprocal approach to U.S. and other foreign press in China.” Reciprocity = you limit our journalist we'll limit yours. I expect a ban on those 100 remaining Chinese state media journalists.
- ilikehurdles 7y ago
  What a ridiculously stupid goal. If we had a goal of reciprocity with every authoritarian dictatorship we'd end up enacting their policies until our government looks no different from our adversaries'.
  - azinman2 7y ago
    Assuming it’s done on a per-country basis, how else do you not get taken advantage of?
    - scarejunba 7y ago
      The way it was done in the past is by being ridiculously stronger than the other participant. So you let your Pakistani or Iraqi counterpart make a big show to appear strong to their people and you do nothing because you still have them under your thumb. Unfortunately, China is now one of America’s peers so it’s necessary to establish the level playing field.
    - DiogenesKynikos 7y ago
      You can't force other countries to behave how you'd like. Some countries don't have freedom of the press. The United States should not be in the business of restricting freedom of the press in order to pressure other countries to respect it. The goal is for the United States to follow the principles laid down in the Bill of Rights. Throwing those out in order to pressure other countries is a terrible idea.

theseadroid 7y ago

Just wanna emphasize that there's historical contest with the words Sick Man of Asia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sick_man_of_Asia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sick_man_of_Asia The phrase reminds any Chinese about China's darkest history in 500 years.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

osazuwa 7y ago

For context, "sick man of Asia" is up there with the n-word and drawing pictures of Mohammad in terms of its ability to offend a group of people. China has a history of ethnic and national identity that is closely tied to narratives about the superiority of the Chinese people. The late-Qing and 20th century decline of China's stature in the world, particularly to Western barbarians and the historically 2nd-fiddle-playing Japan was a huge blow to this narrative and it left Chinese identity reeling. This "sick man of Asia" was an insult calculated not just to justify imperialist incursions into China, but also to twist this particular knife and break the Chinese people's morale. Since then, China's sense of identity has centered on defending the culture and the people from foreigners who want to make an innately superior people seem inferior out of jealousy and malice. Ever other TV show and movie in China is about fighting and defeating foreigners who call China "sick man of Asia". Calling China sick man of Asia during a pandemic that started in China (something they were bound to be embarrassed about) makes one think the writers of that piece were trying to get as extreme a reaction as possible from the Chinese side. Honestly, I thought it would be worse.

wesleywt 7y ago
Calling a country a sick man has no relation to the sickness of their people but the trouble of their government. The Ottoman Empire was the sick man of Europe/Middle East referring to their collapsing empire. China might be the sick man of Asia if rumours of their massively slowing economy is true.
- theseadroid 7y ago
  Sick Man of Asia though was mainly referring to the opioid addicted Chinese population at that time.
  - ardy42 7y ago
    > Sick Man of Asia though was mainly referring to the opioid addicted Chinese population at that time. Was it? I thought that it mainly referred to the weakness and dysfunction of the Imperial Chinese government, which was a major contributing factor to that.

dirtyid 7y ago

Feb 2nd: US designates 5 Chinese media companies as outlets as government entities. It's widely believed the expelling of the three WSJ report was retaliation to that.