24 ms·

Well, if I as developer would realize that i pose my users under certain risk and i am unable to do anything about it, then the only logical and morally correct

Well, if I as developer would realize that i pose my users under certain risk and i am unable to do anything about it, then the only logical and morally correct option would be, to tell that my users and cease operation. Everything else is selfish and delusional!

smacktoward 7y ago
I tend to agree, but if the Pale Moon developers agreed they would have shut the project down long ago. The legacy APIs they're clinging to are loaded with security risks -- that's part of why Mozilla ditched them in the first place. And there's not much evidence that Pale Moon et al. are doing anything substantial to remove or mitigate them.
laurent123456 7y ago
Yes sounds like they should just cut their losses. They gave it a try and discovered you can't maintain a fork of a browser that easily.
LordLestat 7y ago
It is up to the user to decide WHAT they want to use. If they want to use something with features, then YES THEY CAN! Demanding that a product you do NOT like or HATE should cease their activity.. this is dictatorship! Leftist fanaticism of the worst kind - especially if it is against features. The worst kind of community which is contra-features and contra-choice is Mozilla these days without their origin power-user target-group. Most remaining Mozilla users today are radical left, so is Mozillas management these days.And both have a serious intense hate against features and functions... hate against everything which is against conformity.
- tensor 7y ago
  The political propaganda in your post, e.g. "radical left", "leftist fanaticism," makes it lose all meaning. Sadly I didn't see a flag button. I would hope that posts like yours are not welcome in a technical discussion.
  - duckMuppet 7y ago
    Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.
  - rickcrown 7y ago
    There is a difference between discussing something and the fascist haters of customization these days. It is a fact that most people are either using Firefox OR Chrome and sharing such a toxic opinion. And that is not what the right-wing side is spreading, this opinion you can find majority-wise at the left-winger audience. Therefor Lestat is right and this has to be mentioned, as there is zero reason that such disgusting fascism just should not be ignored.
    - dang 7y ago
      Would you please stop?
  - doncraddle 7y ago
    Typical leftist censorship - Say something what the Moz-Nazis do not agree with and you get downvoted. Disgusting fucking leftist racists!
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- smacktoward 7y ago
  If you don't have the resources or expertise to provide those features in a safe fashion, you're not doing the user any favors by going ahead and providing them anyway.
  - LordLestat 7y ago
    They still have the right to exist and users have the right to use them.
    - DonHopkins 7y ago
      You have unwittingly become the deranged, unhinged, wildly inaccurate, cartoon-like caricature of the left that you imagine and detest. Everyone except for you sees quite clearly that you're just projecting, and that your "technical" arguments are incompetent and meaningless, merely a carrier for your unhinged political polemic. Don't try to deny it: your own words have already proven it.
- IAmEveryone 7y ago
  Say a farmer notices they accidentally dropped their rat poisson into the milk. Should they still sell it? Assume it comes with the warning "this will kill you", printed large enough to inform exactly the same fraction of customers as PaleMoon users who have the competence and information to make an informed judgement regarding its security. Also: this has absolutely nothing to do with "leftism" and "dictatorship", and "conformity". Except in the sense that those terms have apparently become synonyms for "not doing stupid things that will harm you" to people prone to use all-caps.
  - smnthermes 7y ago
    > Assume it comes with the warning "this will kill you", printed large enough to inform exactly the same fraction of customers as PaleMoon users who have the competence and information to make an informed judgement regarding its security. Fake news. Firefox had sandboxing (that was the excuse for deprecating XUL/XPCOM) before Chrom* and Electrolysis: 1. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Archive/Add-ons/Security_best_practices_in_extensions https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Archive/Add-ons/Sec... 2. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Archive/Add-ons/Displaying_web_content_in_an_extension_without_security_issues https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Archive/Add-ons/Dis... 3. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Archive/Add-ons/Interaction_between_privileged_and_non-privileged_pages https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Archive/Add-ons/Int...
zelon88 7y ago
> and cease operation. I hate when that happens. I choose the applications in my workflow for specific reasons or for some unique value that they offer. It's one thing when a developer moves on from a project and leaves it in an unfinished state. It's an entirely different story when the developer basically throws up his hands and tells their users they give up because xxx is too hard. Just tell me what's wrong and let me decide! Then if your userbase crashes you can make the decision if you want to continue or not. Deciding for yourself what's important to me is extremely frustrating as a user. Kinda like when Microsoft deprecated the SmtpClient Class in .NET and told people to use MailKit instead. So now it's taboo to use the perfectly good Microsoft class which only takes 6 LOC to send an email and everyone is crapping their pants trying to make 300 LOC mailkit scripts to perform the same task. Because some clown at Microsoft got a hard-on over MailKit and decided to burn their own house down.
- pjmlp 7y ago
  .NET Core? We are still mostly on .NET Framework land and happily using SmtpClient.
AnarchistNode7 7y ago
https://www.reddit.com/r/palemoon/comments/fk4fnl/attention_palemoon_is_going_to_die_most_likely/fkre662/ https://www.reddit.com/r/palemoon/comments/fk4fnl/attention_... Pretty poor the trolling attempts by the Pale Moon cultists! Shows who the true racists and Nazis are!
- DonHopkins 7y ago
  I reckon Lord_Lestat is about 12 years old.

smacktoward 7y ago

I tend to agree, but if the Pale Moon developers agreed they would have shut the project down long ago. The legacy APIs they're clinging to are loaded with security risks -- that's part of why Mozilla ditched them in the first place. And there's not much evidence that Pale Moon et al. are doing anything substantial to remove or mitigate them.

laurent123456 7y ago

Yes sounds like they should just cut their losses. They gave it a try and discovered you can't maintain a fork of a browser that easily.

LordLestat 7y ago

It is up to the user to decide WHAT they want to use. If they want to use something with features, then YES THEY CAN! Demanding that a product you do NOT like or HATE should cease their activity.. this is dictatorship! Leftist fanaticism of the worst kind - especially if it is against features. The worst kind of community which is contra-features and contra-choice is Mozilla these days without their origin power-user target-group. Most remaining Mozilla users today are radical left, so is Mozillas management these days.And both have a serious intense hate against features and functions... hate against everything which is against conformity.

tensor 7y ago
The political propaganda in your post, e.g. "radical left", "leftist fanaticism," makes it lose all meaning. Sadly I didn't see a flag button. I would hope that posts like yours are not welcome in a technical discussion.
- duckMuppet 7y ago
  Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.
- rickcrown 7y ago
  There is a difference between discussing something and the fascist haters of customization these days. It is a fact that most people are either using Firefox OR Chrome and sharing such a toxic opinion. And that is not what the right-wing side is spreading, this opinion you can find majority-wise at the left-winger audience. Therefor Lestat is right and this has to be mentioned, as there is zero reason that such disgusting fascism just should not be ignored.
  - dang 7y ago
    Would you please stop?
- doncraddle 7y ago
  Typical leftist censorship - Say something what the Moz-Nazis do not agree with and you get downvoted. Disgusting fucking leftist racists!
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
smacktoward 7y ago
If you don't have the resources or expertise to provide those features in a safe fashion, you're not doing the user any favors by going ahead and providing them anyway.
- LordLestat 7y ago
  They still have the right to exist and users have the right to use them.
  - DonHopkins 7y ago
    You have unwittingly become the deranged, unhinged, wildly inaccurate, cartoon-like caricature of the left that you imagine and detest. Everyone except for you sees quite clearly that you're just projecting, and that your "technical" arguments are incompetent and meaningless, merely a carrier for your unhinged political polemic. Don't try to deny it: your own words have already proven it.
IAmEveryone 7y ago
Say a farmer notices they accidentally dropped their rat poisson into the milk. Should they still sell it? Assume it comes with the warning "this will kill you", printed large enough to inform exactly the same fraction of customers as PaleMoon users who have the competence and information to make an informed judgement regarding its security. Also: this has absolutely nothing to do with "leftism" and "dictatorship", and "conformity". Except in the sense that those terms have apparently become synonyms for "not doing stupid things that will harm you" to people prone to use all-caps.
- smnthermes 7y ago
  > Assume it comes with the warning "this will kill you", printed large enough to inform exactly the same fraction of customers as PaleMoon users who have the competence and information to make an informed judgement regarding its security. Fake news. Firefox had sandboxing (that was the excuse for deprecating XUL/XPCOM) before Chrom* and Electrolysis: 1. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Archive/Add-ons/Security_best_practices_in_extensions https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Archive/Add-ons/Sec... 2. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Archive/Add-ons/Displaying_web_content_in_an_extension_without_security_issues https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Archive/Add-ons/Dis... 3. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Archive/Add-ons/Interaction_between_privileged_and_non-privileged_pages https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Archive/Add-ons/Int...

zelon88 7y ago

> and cease operation. I hate when that happens. I choose the applications in my workflow for specific reasons or for some unique value that they offer. It's one thing when a developer moves on from a project and leaves it in an unfinished state. It's an entirely different story when the developer basically throws up his hands and tells their users they give up because xxx is too hard. Just tell me what's wrong and let me decide! Then if your userbase crashes you can make the decision if you want to continue or not. Deciding for yourself what's important to me is extremely frustrating as a user. Kinda like when Microsoft deprecated the SmtpClient Class in .NET and told people to use MailKit instead. So now it's taboo to use the perfectly good Microsoft class which only takes 6 LOC to send an email and everyone is crapping their pants trying to make 300 LOC mailkit scripts to perform the same task. Because some clown at Microsoft got a hard-on over MailKit and decided to burn their own house down.

pjmlp 7y ago
.NET Core? We are still mostly on .NET Framework land and happily using SmtpClient.

AnarchistNode7 7y ago

https://www.reddit.com/r/palemoon/comments/fk4fnl/attention_palemoon_is_going_to_die_most_likely/fkre662/ https://www.reddit.com/r/palemoon/comments/fk4fnl/attention_... Pretty poor the trolling attempts by the Pale Moon cultists! Shows who the true racists and Nazis are!

DonHopkins 7y ago
I reckon Lord_Lestat is about 12 years old.