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Thank god this could never happen in the US. https://www.newsweek.com/hhs-coronavirus-whistleblower-claims-she-was-unfairly-reassigned-after-raising-concerns-ov

Thank god this could never happen in the US. https://www.newsweek.com/hhs-coronavirus-whistleblower-claims-she-was-unfairly-reassigned-after-raising-concerns-over-lack-1489624 https://www.newsweek.com/hhs-coronavirus-whistleblower-claim... People are people, and have been shooting the messenger for millennia.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
ctoth 7y ago
Oh. Someone criticized China. And then someone rapidly turned around and said "But what about the US!" Where have I possibly seen this before?
- bildung 7y ago
  Yes, everyone hinting that xenophobia might not be a sensible pursuit when facing a pandemia is obviously a paid troll. I'm German, BTW, and considering the history of our country I'm a bit sensible to things like this.
- dang 7y ago
  Please stop posting flamebait and/or unsubstantive comments to Hacker News. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
grandmczeb 7y ago
Li Wenliang was arrested and forced by the police to sign a letter admitting to “false comments.” These aren’t even remotely comparable.
- whatshisface 7y ago
  They are a little comparable, in that what the US is trying to do indicates that it would go the same way as in China if there was not a semi-functional press, a freedom-minded citizenry, and a mostly-functional democracy holding them back. The intent and "evil" is there, what makes the difference is what restrains it.
  - droopyEyelids 7y ago
    So you're saying that if the USA was a different country, like China, then things would have gone the way they did in China?
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - dang 7y ago
      If you don't want to be banned on HN, please read https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22606977 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22606977 and do not post any more flamewar comments.
  - cloverich 7y ago
    I get the point you are trying to make but I think you have missed the undertone, which is generally accepted in the US: Most people in the US agree that without freedom of press, "checks and balances", etc, the US government would indeed become an authoritarian state with all the evils that entails.
- bildung 7y ago
  Firstly, he wasn't arrested. Secondly, this isn't about who did more wrong. I don't really care if signing that letter or a transfer for disciplinary reasons is worse - both did the right thing and both should have been praised instead.
  - grandmczeb 7y ago
    He was forced by the police to come to the police station and not allowed to leave until he admitted to disrupting the social order[1]. Call that whatever you want, but I think arrested accurately portrays the situation. Second, no one is defending the US’ actions, but you’re clearly trying to minimize China’s. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/feb/07/coronavirus-chinese-rage-death-whistleblower-doctor-li-wenliang https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/feb/07/c...
- selimthegrim 7y ago
  No, but what about Helen Chu at UW? What about UPMC the other day as someone pointed out. Can the feds leave people alone when they know how to tie their own shoelaces and focus on getting ventilators deployed?
  - grandmczeb 7y ago
    Again, not comparable at all. Find a case where someone was arrested and forced to sign a false confession.
FreakyT 7y ago
Ah yes, what this comment section really needed was a healthy dose of whataboutism /s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
- bildung 7y ago
  As in most cases when this link gets posted here, this is not actually a case of whataboutism. Here, the argument is "this cannot happen here because the US is not a dictatorship and we have free press". I linked to an actual case of this happening in the US. So apparently, the Chinese don't have some unique property making only them supress whistleblowers.
  - FreakyT 7y ago
    The parent comment argued nothing of the sort. It said simply: > "The Chinese Government is squarely to blame for this situation. Could it have been prevented if they had acted responsibly? I don't know" The parent comment made no statements about how it could never happen in another country. It was specifically about the Chinese government's mishandling -- it was you who injected the bit about the US.
- dang 7y ago
  Please do not post in the flamewar style to HN. Also, please keep that particular trope away from here. It's a marker of lame discussion. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=by%3Adang%20whataboutism&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...
SeanLuke 7y ago
As soon as I saw a posting critical of China, I was scanning HN for the first whataboutism message. Was not disappointed!
- dang 7y ago
  Please do not post in the flamewar style to HN. Also, please keep that particular trope away from here. It's a marker of lame discussion. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=by%3Adang%20whataboutism&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...
dang 7y ago
Please read https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22606977 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22606977 and do not post any more nationalistic flamebait, or other flamebait, to HN.
- bildung 7y ago
  Sorry, that wasn't my intention at all. Nationalism was the opposite of what I was trying to convey, but obviously that didn't work out that well. In times like these we all have to look at what can be done to minimize human suffering, not who is to blame.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

ctoth 7y ago

Oh. Someone criticized China. And then someone rapidly turned around and said "But what about the US!" Where have I possibly seen this before?

bildung 7y ago
Yes, everyone hinting that xenophobia might not be a sensible pursuit when facing a pandemia is obviously a paid troll. I'm German, BTW, and considering the history of our country I'm a bit sensible to things like this.
dang 7y ago
Please stop posting flamebait and/or unsubstantive comments to Hacker News. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

grandmczeb 7y ago

Li Wenliang was arrested and forced by the police to sign a letter admitting to “false comments.” These aren’t even remotely comparable.

whatshisface 7y ago
They are a little comparable, in that what the US is trying to do indicates that it would go the same way as in China if there was not a semi-functional press, a freedom-minded citizenry, and a mostly-functional democracy holding them back. The intent and "evil" is there, what makes the difference is what restrains it.
- droopyEyelids 7y ago
  So you're saying that if the USA was a different country, like China, then things would have gone the way they did in China?
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - dang 7y ago
    If you don't want to be banned on HN, please read https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22606977 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22606977 and do not post any more flamewar comments.
- cloverich 7y ago
  I get the point you are trying to make but I think you have missed the undertone, which is generally accepted in the US: Most people in the US agree that without freedom of press, "checks and balances", etc, the US government would indeed become an authoritarian state with all the evils that entails.
bildung 7y ago
Firstly, he wasn't arrested. Secondly, this isn't about who did more wrong. I don't really care if signing that letter or a transfer for disciplinary reasons is worse - both did the right thing and both should have been praised instead.
- grandmczeb 7y ago
  He was forced by the police to come to the police station and not allowed to leave until he admitted to disrupting the social order[1]. Call that whatever you want, but I think arrested accurately portrays the situation. Second, no one is defending the US’ actions, but you’re clearly trying to minimize China’s. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/feb/07/coronavirus-chinese-rage-death-whistleblower-doctor-li-wenliang https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/feb/07/c...
selimthegrim 7y ago
No, but what about Helen Chu at UW? What about UPMC the other day as someone pointed out. Can the feds leave people alone when they know how to tie their own shoelaces and focus on getting ventilators deployed?
- grandmczeb 7y ago
  Again, not comparable at all. Find a case where someone was arrested and forced to sign a false confession.

FreakyT 7y ago

Ah yes, what this comment section really needed was a healthy dose of whataboutism /s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

bildung 7y ago
As in most cases when this link gets posted here, this is not actually a case of whataboutism. Here, the argument is "this cannot happen here because the US is not a dictatorship and we have free press". I linked to an actual case of this happening in the US. So apparently, the Chinese don't have some unique property making only them supress whistleblowers.
- FreakyT 7y ago
  The parent comment argued nothing of the sort. It said simply: > "The Chinese Government is squarely to blame for this situation. Could it have been prevented if they had acted responsibly? I don't know" The parent comment made no statements about how it could never happen in another country. It was specifically about the Chinese government's mishandling -- it was you who injected the bit about the US.
dang 7y ago
Please do not post in the flamewar style to HN. Also, please keep that particular trope away from here. It's a marker of lame discussion. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=by%3Adang%20whataboutism&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...

SeanLuke 7y ago

As soon as I saw a posting critical of China, I was scanning HN for the first whataboutism message. Was not disappointed!

dang 7y ago
Please do not post in the flamewar style to HN. Also, please keep that particular trope away from here. It's a marker of lame discussion. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=by%3Adang%20whataboutism&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...

dang 7y ago

Please read https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22606977 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22606977 and do not post any more nationalistic flamebait, or other flamebait, to HN.

bildung 7y ago
Sorry, that wasn't my intention at all. Nationalism was the opposite of what I was trying to convey, but obviously that didn't work out that well. In times like these we all have to look at what can be done to minimize human suffering, not who is to blame.