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> What’s the U.S. government doing about a potential shortage here? Not much, it seems. > The ventilator industry is getting a burst of desperate orders from C

> What’s the U.S. government doing about a potential shortage here? Not much, it seems. > The ventilator industry is getting a burst of desperate orders from China and Italy. Why don't the feds see the urgency here? Is it not predictable that the US will be in the same situation shortly? If the feds won't take action, can state governments work around them and order directly?

cultus 7y ago
The states have effectively been going it alone this whole time.
- wlesieutre 7y ago
  I heard through the grapevine that the feds deliberately put the brakes on UPMC working on their own COVID-19 testing. They've been an active hindrance. EDIT: via Pittsburgh Post-Gazette https://www.post-gazette.com/news/health/2020/03/14/covid-19-upmc-testing-coronavirus/stories/202003140044 https://www.post-gazette.com/news/health/2020/03/14/covid-19... At 20 patients a day (aiming for 100 by the end of the week) this isn't an industrial scale testing scheme, but given how slow we've been that's still a significant chunk of testing capacity and it would've been great for Pittsburgh to have access to it sooner.
- fma 7y ago
  And yesterday, Trump reiterated that states will be going alone in the future. He's refusing any responsibility to have a coordinated action plan. “Respirators, ventilators, all of the equipment — try getting it yourselves,” https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/nation/try-getting-it-yourselves-trump-tells-governors-seeking-ventilators-in-coronavirus-outbreak/ https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/nation/try-getting...
  - Super_Jambo 7y ago
    Can't suspend elections if it's not a real disaster after all .
dmix 7y ago
Yes Trump said in one of the press conferences that he gave states permission to bypass the federal gov to buy what they need directly from manufacturers.
- ceejayoz 7y ago
  That's a... charitable interpretation. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/16/us/politics/trump-coronavirus-respirators.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/16/us/politics/trump-coronav... > “Respirators, ventilators, all of the equipment — try getting it yourselves,” Mr. Trump told the governors during the conference call, a recording of which was shared with The New York Times. “We will be backing you, but try getting it yourselves. Point of sales, much better, much more direct if you can get it yourself.” Distributing these is the sort of thing the federal government can do far more effectively than an "every man for himself" approach.
  - JoeAltmaier 7y ago
    Not sure we can find a citation for that? Govt is notoriously criticized for inefficiency during crisis.
    - ceejayoz 7y ago
      "New York has plenty, Ohio needs a bunch" is precisely the sort of coordination that the Feds are there for.
      - JoeAltmaier 7y ago
        And "Ohio Governor calls New York Governor, who dispatches a truck to Ohio" is also coordination. Where each understands local conditions on the ground and can perform the necessary tasks to actually get something done.
        ceejayoz 7y ago
        The worse it gets, the less willing states will be to do that. No one wants to be the governor who gave supplies to another state when the next election comes up.
pdonis 7y ago
The government is not the one who should be seeing the urgency here. Hospitals and other health care facilities should. They are the ones who should be placing orders for ventilators. If the hospitals and other facilities need funding to help with that, that's something governments might be able to help with. But it's still the facilities themselves that should be forecasting an obvious future need and taking steps to meet it.
- wtvanhest 7y ago
  I think its reasonable to expect the gov to step in here, and order the ventalators or at least enter in to contracts to pay for them if they are not used.
- rectang 7y ago
  From the article: > If there is a risk of a surge in need, and if it takes three months to boost part deliveries, somebody ought to be placing orders right now. But a hospital might well hesitate, given the perhaps equal risk that the extra machines will never be used. Who would eat the cost? That explains why the German order came from the government.
- SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
  No, the government should be doing this. God willing, not every hospital will need every ventilator at once, but at some point they may, and that's why it needs to be a shared, transferable resource. They are going to need a way to deploy a hundred ventilators to a stadium or conference center, and that just makes sense to come from a government, instead of scrounging from various hospitals.
wtvanhest 7y ago
Yeah, I really don't understand it. We knew there was a serious problem by mid-jan. The federal gov could have known by early Jan by sending someone to Wuhan. We are almost 90 days from then. I assumed (incorrectly) that we would have already ramped mask/glove/sanitizer/ventilator production and would just now be getting the supply. I'm kind of in shock at how exposed we all are.
tathougies 7y ago
> Why don't the feds see the urgency here? Because the United States is a collection of fifty sovereign states, not a centralized government. Why is the EU not taking EU-wide action here, and leaving responses up to constituent governments?
- scott_s 7y ago
  This is demonstrably not true. The constitution clearly states that federal law is supreme in the US. That means the states are not sovereign.
  - sojournerc 7y ago
    >The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. That's the 10th amendment. Pretty sure it says the exact opposite of what you just stated.
    - scott_s 7y ago
      It agrees with what I said. Calling states sovereign means they answer to no higher authority. The constitution clearly states that the federal government is a higher authority than state governments. The 10th amendment basically means that powers the federal government has not claimed belong to the states - but federal law is still supreme, and the federal government can always claim more powers through amendments.
      - sojournerc 7y ago
        How are those amendments passed? By state representatives and senators. The _only_ powers the Federal Gov. has are those granted by the constitution. They cannot go claiming powers not specified therein. That is in direct contradiction with this statement: > powers the federal government has not claimed belong to the states The Fed Gov. can't just claim supreme power. That's exactly what the 10th amendment is intended to address.

cultus 7y ago

The states have effectively been going it alone this whole time.

wlesieutre 7y ago
I heard through the grapevine that the feds deliberately put the brakes on UPMC working on their own COVID-19 testing. They've been an active hindrance. EDIT: via Pittsburgh Post-Gazette https://www.post-gazette.com/news/health/2020/03/14/covid-19-upmc-testing-coronavirus/stories/202003140044 https://www.post-gazette.com/news/health/2020/03/14/covid-19... At 20 patients a day (aiming for 100 by the end of the week) this isn't an industrial scale testing scheme, but given how slow we've been that's still a significant chunk of testing capacity and it would've been great for Pittsburgh to have access to it sooner.
fma 7y ago
And yesterday, Trump reiterated that states will be going alone in the future. He's refusing any responsibility to have a coordinated action plan. “Respirators, ventilators, all of the equipment — try getting it yourselves,” https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/nation/try-getting-it-yourselves-trump-tells-governors-seeking-ventilators-in-coronavirus-outbreak/ https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/nation/try-getting...
- Super_Jambo 7y ago
  Can't suspend elections if it's not a real disaster after all .

dmix 7y ago

Yes Trump said in one of the press conferences that he gave states permission to bypass the federal gov to buy what they need directly from manufacturers.

ceejayoz 7y ago
That's a... charitable interpretation. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/16/us/politics/trump-coronavirus-respirators.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/16/us/politics/trump-coronav... > “Respirators, ventilators, all of the equipment — try getting it yourselves,” Mr. Trump told the governors during the conference call, a recording of which was shared with The New York Times. “We will be backing you, but try getting it yourselves. Point of sales, much better, much more direct if you can get it yourself.” Distributing these is the sort of thing the federal government can do far more effectively than an "every man for himself" approach.
- JoeAltmaier 7y ago
  Not sure we can find a citation for that? Govt is notoriously criticized for inefficiency during crisis.
  - ceejayoz 7y ago
    "New York has plenty, Ohio needs a bunch" is precisely the sort of coordination that the Feds are there for.
    - JoeAltmaier 7y ago
      And "Ohio Governor calls New York Governor, who dispatches a truck to Ohio" is also coordination. Where each understands local conditions on the ground and can perform the necessary tasks to actually get something done.
      - ceejayoz 7y ago
        The worse it gets, the less willing states will be to do that. No one wants to be the governor who gave supplies to another state when the next election comes up.

pdonis 7y ago

The government is not the one who should be seeing the urgency here. Hospitals and other health care facilities should. They are the ones who should be placing orders for ventilators. If the hospitals and other facilities need funding to help with that, that's something governments might be able to help with. But it's still the facilities themselves that should be forecasting an obvious future need and taking steps to meet it.

wtvanhest 7y ago
I think its reasonable to expect the gov to step in here, and order the ventalators or at least enter in to contracts to pay for them if they are not used.
rectang 7y ago
From the article: > If there is a risk of a surge in need, and if it takes three months to boost part deliveries, somebody ought to be placing orders right now. But a hospital might well hesitate, given the perhaps equal risk that the extra machines will never be used. Who would eat the cost? That explains why the German order came from the government.
SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
No, the government should be doing this. God willing, not every hospital will need every ventilator at once, but at some point they may, and that's why it needs to be a shared, transferable resource. They are going to need a way to deploy a hundred ventilators to a stadium or conference center, and that just makes sense to come from a government, instead of scrounging from various hospitals.

wtvanhest 7y ago

Yeah, I really don't understand it. We knew there was a serious problem by mid-jan. The federal gov could have known by early Jan by sending someone to Wuhan. We are almost 90 days from then. I assumed (incorrectly) that we would have already ramped mask/glove/sanitizer/ventilator production and would just now be getting the supply. I'm kind of in shock at how exposed we all are.

tathougies 7y ago

> Why don't the feds see the urgency here? Because the United States is a collection of fifty sovereign states, not a centralized government. Why is the EU not taking EU-wide action here, and leaving responses up to constituent governments?

scott_s 7y ago
This is demonstrably not true. The constitution clearly states that federal law is supreme in the US. That means the states are not sovereign.
- sojournerc 7y ago
  >The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. That's the 10th amendment. Pretty sure it says the exact opposite of what you just stated.
  - scott_s 7y ago
    It agrees with what I said. Calling states sovereign means they answer to no higher authority. The constitution clearly states that the federal government is a higher authority than state governments. The 10th amendment basically means that powers the federal government has not claimed belong to the states - but federal law is still supreme, and the federal government can always claim more powers through amendments.
    - sojournerc 7y ago
      How are those amendments passed? By state representatives and senators. The _only_ powers the Federal Gov. has are those granted by the constitution. They cannot go claiming powers not specified therein. That is in direct contradiction with this statement: > powers the federal government has not claimed belong to the states The Fed Gov. can't just claim supreme power. That's exactly what the 10th amendment is intended to address.