4 ms·

> I used to be big into XHTML I know :( > rather thanks to the crowd that kept bashing IE and FF thorough the last decade. I like FF, but that's too simp

by Ygg2 7y ago

> I used to be big into XHTML I know :( > rather thanks to the crowd that kept bashing IE and FF thorough the last decade. I like FF, but that's too simplified. Chrome was preinstalled on a bunch of devices (namely Android) and heavily advertised (through Google). Firefox and even IE is having an uphill battle fighting that kind of power. What governments need to do is do to Google what they did to Microsoft. Lawsuit, hefty fine and mandatory choose your own browser. Although, I doubt even that would help.

ori_b 7y ago
Chrome needs to be split from Google.
- Tyr42 7y ago
  How would it pay for developers then?
  - Ygg2 7y ago
    Like other ever other commercial browser?
    - Tyr42 7y ago
      What do you mean by commercial browsers? Edge is backed by MS, Safari by Apple, so they are out. Firefox is a backed by a foundation, a not for profit. Brave is on top of chrome, and open source. I guess the old Opera browser ran ads in the browser and was a commercial browser. And did people pay for netscape navigator?
  - ori_b 7y ago
    The way Firefox does.
pjmlp 7y ago
Sure it is simplified, but for example on my current project, the customer does not require FF or Edge compliance, yet I take the effort to also test our application on them.
- Ygg2 7y ago
  Thanks for doing your part :) Now, if only someone could stop Firefox managers from killing off the only good part of Firefox (it's diverse addon system).
  - notriddle 7y ago
    Ever since the XUL add-ons system was shut down, they've only added new features to webextensions. It's either already dead, or it's not being killed off, depending on your POV.
    - Ygg2 7y ago
      I just wish ScrapBook worked like before :( So many extensions lost, like tears in the rain.
marcus_holmes 7y ago
> Chrome was preinstalled on a bunch of devices (namely Android) Linux comes with Firefox pre-installed (or some variant of it, depending on distro). Windows comes with Edge pre-installed. MacOS comes with Safari pre-installed. OSX comes with Safari Mobile pre-installed. Android devices appear to have a decent choice of browsers, and the default is chosen by the manufacturer. For a lot of them that's Chrome, but not all. I don't think there's actually any large group of devices that has Chrome pre-installed. Also, pure Android users are free to install any browser and set it as the default. Chrome is so popular because it has been the best browser for years. Whether that's still true is open for debate. But I remember when it came out, finally an answer to the godawful shite that was IE. We may dislike it now, but it saved us from Microsoft's disaster. It's fascinating that you're now claiming that "even IE is having an uphill battle fighting that kind of power". How the tables have turned. The problem is not so much with marketing power, but with coding investment. Writing a browser is a mammoth undertaking, with all the strange edge cases and standards. Even Microsoft has decided it doesn't see the point in writing one. We're going to be left with two browser choices not because of corporate power, but because it's just too much effort for not enough reward to write a third. I see where TFA is coming from: if we could agree that browsers don't need to be this complex, then there would be more of them. But that would mean less flexible web pages, and we'd end up with something Flash-like being an attractive alternative.
- saagarjha 7y ago
  > Linux comes with Firefox pre-installed (or some variant of it, depending on distro). A number of distributions ship with GNOME Web.
- SickOfSlowSites 7y ago
  > Chrome is so popular because it has been the best browser for years. Whether that's still true is open for debate. But I remember when it came out, finally an answer to the godawful shite that was IE. We may dislike it now, but it saved us from Microsoft's disaster. That wasn't Chrome at all. It was Firefox. Where is this history re-write coming from. Firefox lost market-share when they went to Australis and became followers of Chrome instead of leaders (helped in part no doubt by funding from Google).

by Ygg2 7y ago

ori_b 7y ago

Chrome needs to be split from Google.

Tyr42 7y ago
How would it pay for developers then?
- Ygg2 7y ago
  Like other ever other commercial browser?
  - Tyr42 7y ago
    What do you mean by commercial browsers? Edge is backed by MS, Safari by Apple, so they are out. Firefox is a backed by a foundation, a not for profit. Brave is on top of chrome, and open source. I guess the old Opera browser ran ads in the browser and was a commercial browser. And did people pay for netscape navigator?
- ori_b 7y ago
  The way Firefox does.

pjmlp 7y ago

Sure it is simplified, but for example on my current project, the customer does not require FF or Edge compliance, yet I take the effort to also test our application on them.

Ygg2 7y ago
Thanks for doing your part :) Now, if only someone could stop Firefox managers from killing off the only good part of Firefox (it's diverse addon system).
- notriddle 7y ago
  Ever since the XUL add-ons system was shut down, they've only added new features to webextensions. It's either already dead, or it's not being killed off, depending on your POV.
  - Ygg2 7y ago
    I just wish ScrapBook worked like before :( So many extensions lost, like tears in the rain.

marcus_holmes 7y ago

> Chrome was preinstalled on a bunch of devices (namely Android) Linux comes with Firefox pre-installed (or some variant of it, depending on distro). Windows comes with Edge pre-installed. MacOS comes with Safari pre-installed. OSX comes with Safari Mobile pre-installed. Android devices appear to have a decent choice of browsers, and the default is chosen by the manufacturer. For a lot of them that's Chrome, but not all. I don't think there's actually any large group of devices that has Chrome pre-installed. Also, pure Android users are free to install any browser and set it as the default. Chrome is so popular because it has been the best browser for years. Whether that's still true is open for debate. But I remember when it came out, finally an answer to the godawful shite that was IE. We may dislike it now, but it saved us from Microsoft's disaster. It's fascinating that you're now claiming that "even IE is having an uphill battle fighting that kind of power". How the tables have turned. The problem is not so much with marketing power, but with coding investment. Writing a browser is a mammoth undertaking, with all the strange edge cases and standards. Even Microsoft has decided it doesn't see the point in writing one. We're going to be left with two browser choices not because of corporate power, but because it's just too much effort for not enough reward to write a third. I see where TFA is coming from: if we could agree that browsers don't need to be this complex, then there would be more of them. But that would mean less flexible web pages, and we'd end up with something Flash-like being an attractive alternative.

saagarjha 7y ago
> Linux comes with Firefox pre-installed (or some variant of it, depending on distro). A number of distributions ship with GNOME Web.
SickOfSlowSites 7y ago
> Chrome is so popular because it has been the best browser for years. Whether that's still true is open for debate. But I remember when it came out, finally an answer to the godawful shite that was IE. We may dislike it now, but it saved us from Microsoft's disaster. That wasn't Chrome at all. It was Firefox. Where is this history re-write coming from. Firefox lost market-share when they went to Australis and became followers of Chrome instead of leaders (helped in part no doubt by funding from Google).