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I don’t really get this. The media industry collectively thinks what they make is worth the collective cost of all their streaming services (probably hundreds

I don’t really get this. The media industry collectively thinks what they make is worth the collective cost of all their streaming services (probably hundreds of dollars a month). They’ve spent BILLIONS making the movies that make up these catalogs. And before you say “well they already made it back” let me remind you we’re on a tech forum, what industry makes the most money from “selling the same experience over and over again until your margins are nutty” You feel you have the right to watch EVERYTHING they make, a subset of a few lifetimes of content just won’t do for the modern man. So instead of sticking it to them and not buying into their game until they’re forced to reform... you go and spend time illegally downloading their movies so that instead of getting the message “we don’t make stuff good enough to justify it’s price”, they get the message “we’re doing so well that people are stealing our content, go lobby for copyright laws harder or something Legal”. Because more media than people who spent 100s of dollars to experience not that long ago is not ok, you need to have ALL of it. And if they don’t feel it’s in their best interests, you’re going to steal it (and yes, it’s stealing enough with the “but I didn’t take the original”, why don’t you go copy all your employer's IP and post it on pastebin then tell the cops you just made a copy”) - I personally pay for like, 2 services? There is A LOT of media on there. For 30$ a month I’m getting access to more shoes and movies than cable would provide for 100s of dollars once upon a time. More than any sane person could watch in one lifetime. Sometimes I have to forgo watching something because it’s not on the service I want. I don’t bother going to steal it. Once upon a time I was a kid with no money and no job, less impulse control and much more time to waste, so I would, let me not pretend I’ve never done it.... But now I’m an adult, I can decide not to watch something and watch something else if I feel it’s not worth my money. If there’s a movie worth enough to me I can usually pay for access to it specifically (one off payment before someone starts waving the subscriptions are murder stick... on a tech forum). But that’s actually never happened. Because there’s so much content there, unless you have this mentality of “I must have it all, I deserve it all, nothing less will do” I don’t see how 50$ a month of services (your cutoff) would not be enough.

imgabe 7y ago
> The media industry collectively thinks what they make is worth the collective cost of all their streaming services (probably hundreds of dollars a month). Sure, they're entitled to think whatever they want. The reality is that the marginal cost of making a digital copy is near zero. Their work is widely available for free to anyone who cares to look for it. And it is extremely unlikely that the average person would ever experience any negative consequences for getting it for free. You can think that's right or wrong or try to shame people all you want, but those are simple facts. Another fact is that for a large portion of the world, the content is not available legally even if you want to pay. So, the content industry can learn to accept those facts and make a good service that makes some money. (Still many billions of dollars) or they can keep operating under the delusion that people should pay even more billions of dollars and get less.
- BoorishBears 7y ago
  The marginal cost of a digital copy of a piece of software is almost 0$ The negative consequences of just stealing it are pretty low Unfortunately so much software has become a thin client for a fat backend, so it’s a little harder, but all said are definitely industries that pay 10,000$ a seat for software that was mostly written 20 years ago and is patched to keep it hobbling along They’re not really going to besides waging larger and larger wars on copyright and forcing DRM The thing is, I don’t really “shame” anyone, but I understand when “normal people” steal movies and shows When technologists do it, it’s the biggest WTF for me.
  - imgabe 7y ago
    I've used some of that $10k per seat software (AutoCAD and Revit). While that is expensive, businesses pay it because 10k is the revenue from one project using it. A very small project at that. It is also much easier to track down and sue a business compared to someone watching a movie alone in their room. Companies that sell that software like Autodesk and Adobe also have the sense not to worry too much about individuals pirating it because more people who know how to use it means more customers later. DRM will always fail because the content has to get decrypted at some point if anyone is going to see it.
    - BoorishBears 7y ago
      I’m not commenting on the efficacy of DRM. For movies and shows, to me it’s a speed bump to try and keep people who don’t really mean to steal, but would gladly copy the disk and give it to all their friends as a favor. Gaming and software is also pretty similar, it’s a speed bump. Maybe keep you from casually copying the software onto everyone’s machine. Denuvo showed the game industry DRM can buy you some freedom from piracy in the most critical sales period, even if only for a few days, but yeah it’s not infallible (and is sold with that caveat) I actually feel like on commercial software part of it is it let’s the nail you with DCMA if you circumvent their DRM directly, but I’m not a lawyer and that’s just my musings... - The thing is, they pay 10k a seat because it makes them revenue. Bur entertainment isn’t about revenue, it’s about enjoyment. People pay 400$ to get their family into an amusement park for one day of entertainment. Netflix is what? 13$ a month for access to 3,000+ movies, and how many shows? Entertainment value is not a fungible good or anything, but to me that’s a very favorable comparison. I’ve never felt I wasn’t getting my money’s worth for the 30$ I pay to literally always have something to watch on TV...
rmellow 7y ago
The movie industry doesn't lobby because "their product is so good people are stealing it". They lobby because they can, as do other industries no one wants anything to do with. My country passed laws to have a minimum percentage of national movies showing in theatres at any time. Lobbying has nothing to do with demand.
- BoorishBears 7y ago
  You’re trying to twist words by saying “so good people are stealing it” and using lobby to encompass literally every type of lobbying, which is ridiculous. Good or bad, people will steal it because they feel entitled to it. They lobby for things like DCMA enforcement and DRM because people steal it. If people didn’t steal it, there would be other things to lobby about, is that your point? I don’t think that wasn't obvious but sure. My point is the things stealing leads them to lobby about things related to stealing, which are things that end up not being great for anyone. - I mean to be clear, the cat is out of the bag and this line of thought is more of a thought experiment than anything. People steal, DRM exists and DCMA exist, the status quo is set.
beatgammit 7y ago
I don't use PopcornTime or otherwise pirate, but I completely understand the motivation of those that do. Personally, I just watch fewer movies because the value just isn't there. I subscribe to Netflix and Amazon Prime mostly because they're inexpensive and have a decent selection of kids shows. I occasionally watch a movie or TV series there, but not nearly as frequently as I did when our local grocery store offered DVD rentals for $1-2 with a large selection (much larger than RedBox offers). These days, if there's nothing good on Netflix, I play video games or read a book because both of those offer far more value/dollar. If the movie industry offered $2 rentals for everything other than new releasees, I'd watch more movies. I'm only willing to pay $5 to watch a movie if it's a new release and I really want to watch it. I also rarely go to the theater as well because $10+ is too much for that experience unless it's opening weekend for a film I've been waiting for (we usually go on Tuesdays for the discounted rate for regular entertainment). I wish the film industry would recognize the opportunity they have that's evidenced by projects like PopcornTime. If they make a movie platform with a nearly complete catalogue, people will use it. It's annoying to check multiple streaming platforms to see where something is available, and it's annoying to pay $5/movie to rent (that's about discounted theater prices, but without the theater experience).

imgabe 7y ago

> The media industry collectively thinks what they make is worth the collective cost of all their streaming services (probably hundreds of dollars a month). Sure, they're entitled to think whatever they want. The reality is that the marginal cost of making a digital copy is near zero. Their work is widely available for free to anyone who cares to look for it. And it is extremely unlikely that the average person would ever experience any negative consequences for getting it for free. You can think that's right or wrong or try to shame people all you want, but those are simple facts. Another fact is that for a large portion of the world, the content is not available legally even if you want to pay. So, the content industry can learn to accept those facts and make a good service that makes some money. (Still many billions of dollars) or they can keep operating under the delusion that people should pay even more billions of dollars and get less.

BoorishBears 7y ago
The marginal cost of a digital copy of a piece of software is almost 0$ The negative consequences of just stealing it are pretty low Unfortunately so much software has become a thin client for a fat backend, so it’s a little harder, but all said are definitely industries that pay 10,000$ a seat for software that was mostly written 20 years ago and is patched to keep it hobbling along They’re not really going to besides waging larger and larger wars on copyright and forcing DRM The thing is, I don’t really “shame” anyone, but I understand when “normal people” steal movies and shows When technologists do it, it’s the biggest WTF for me.
- imgabe 7y ago
  I've used some of that $10k per seat software (AutoCAD and Revit). While that is expensive, businesses pay it because 10k is the revenue from one project using it. A very small project at that. It is also much easier to track down and sue a business compared to someone watching a movie alone in their room. Companies that sell that software like Autodesk and Adobe also have the sense not to worry too much about individuals pirating it because more people who know how to use it means more customers later. DRM will always fail because the content has to get decrypted at some point if anyone is going to see it.
  - BoorishBears 7y ago
    I’m not commenting on the efficacy of DRM. For movies and shows, to me it’s a speed bump to try and keep people who don’t really mean to steal, but would gladly copy the disk and give it to all their friends as a favor. Gaming and software is also pretty similar, it’s a speed bump. Maybe keep you from casually copying the software onto everyone’s machine. Denuvo showed the game industry DRM can buy you some freedom from piracy in the most critical sales period, even if only for a few days, but yeah it’s not infallible (and is sold with that caveat) I actually feel like on commercial software part of it is it let’s the nail you with DCMA if you circumvent their DRM directly, but I’m not a lawyer and that’s just my musings... - The thing is, they pay 10k a seat because it makes them revenue. Bur entertainment isn’t about revenue, it’s about enjoyment. People pay 400$ to get their family into an amusement park for one day of entertainment. Netflix is what? 13$ a month for access to 3,000+ movies, and how many shows? Entertainment value is not a fungible good or anything, but to me that’s a very favorable comparison. I’ve never felt I wasn’t getting my money’s worth for the 30$ I pay to literally always have something to watch on TV...

rmellow 7y ago

The movie industry doesn't lobby because "their product is so good people are stealing it". They lobby because they can, as do other industries no one wants anything to do with. My country passed laws to have a minimum percentage of national movies showing in theatres at any time. Lobbying has nothing to do with demand.

BoorishBears 7y ago
You’re trying to twist words by saying “so good people are stealing it” and using lobby to encompass literally every type of lobbying, which is ridiculous. Good or bad, people will steal it because they feel entitled to it. They lobby for things like DCMA enforcement and DRM because people steal it. If people didn’t steal it, there would be other things to lobby about, is that your point? I don’t think that wasn't obvious but sure. My point is the things stealing leads them to lobby about things related to stealing, which are things that end up not being great for anyone. - I mean to be clear, the cat is out of the bag and this line of thought is more of a thought experiment than anything. People steal, DRM exists and DCMA exist, the status quo is set.

beatgammit 7y ago

I don't use PopcornTime or otherwise pirate, but I completely understand the motivation of those that do. Personally, I just watch fewer movies because the value just isn't there. I subscribe to Netflix and Amazon Prime mostly because they're inexpensive and have a decent selection of kids shows. I occasionally watch a movie or TV series there, but not nearly as frequently as I did when our local grocery store offered DVD rentals for $1-2 with a large selection (much larger than RedBox offers). These days, if there's nothing good on Netflix, I play video games or read a book because both of those offer far more value/dollar. If the movie industry offered $2 rentals for everything other than new releasees, I'd watch more movies. I'm only willing to pay $5 to watch a movie if it's a new release and I really want to watch it. I also rarely go to the theater as well because $10+ is too much for that experience unless it's opening weekend for a film I've been waiting for (we usually go on Tuesdays for the discounted rate for regular entertainment). I wish the film industry would recognize the opportunity they have that's evidenced by projects like PopcornTime. If they make a movie platform with a nearly complete catalogue, people will use it. It's annoying to check multiple streaming platforms to see where something is available, and it's annoying to pay $5/movie to rent (that's about discounted theater prices, but without the theater experience).