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I really do realize computer systems and software are primarily designed for normal people rather than the disabled. I also understand the vastly competitive wo

by jcr 16y ago

I really do realize computer systems and software are primarily designed for normal people rather than the disabled. I also understand the vastly competitive world of web development and the advantages of having a cool looking, feature rich site. None the less, I take offense to the part of jquery-ui that is hijacking the web browser UI. It is remapping keys and pointer usage (text selection). This should have never been allowed in the W3C and EMACscript (javascript) standards. Hijacking the browser UI of a disabled person is like kicking the crutches out from under someone just to see them fall and because you think it will make you look cool to others. Web developers never know how a user-agent is configured and never know the needs of the person using the web browser. Changing how the UI normally works really does hurt, confuse and infuriate many people, and probably more than just the disabled folks. Sure, disabled people are a very small part of the population, and they typically are not the rich consumers buying the latest and greatest. They may not be your target market, your real customer concern, but excluding them with browser hijacking is unnecessary, and in some ways unfair. At least please think over...

rhizome 16y ago
You're right on many points, of course, but hyperboles of cruelty like "kicking the crutches out...just to see them fall and...you think it will make you look cool" don't seem to be grounded in reality.
- jcr 16y ago
  Your criticism is fair, and I should have written something better. I won't edit the original and I'll stand by my mistake since it would make your comment seem off. The thing to realize is I was REALLY trying to contain my temper when the hyperbole slipped out. It's tough be positive while share a perspective of frustration few developers ever see.
arkitaip 16y ago
Not sure that jQuery deserves to be blamed for shoddy interface coding. Any competent web developer knows that you always start out by designing your interfaces so that they work with scripts and plugins disabled [1]. If some - ok, most - devs choose to ignore this design principle then jQuery is hardly to blame. [1] Obviously there are situations when it simply isn't possible to create fully accessible solutions. Sometimes our hands are tied by management, tech stack requirements, etc.
jeresig 16y ago
I'm not really sure what you're responding to, specifically. You do realize that jQuery UI (and jQuery Mobile) are both ARIA compliant, right? This means that it's actually far easier to use these UIs then you might expect. ARIA is very cool stuff - definitely recommend that you check it out! http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/ http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/
- jcr 16y ago
  John, it might be a day or four for me to type them up, but I mail you the test cases, configs, code and details where jquery-ui breaks when it hijacks the UI of the browser. I've tracked the problem to a faulty assumption, namely assuming the user-agent doesn't already have any existing user specified key bindings defined for special needs access. The conflict breaks all key bindings, including the defaults.
  - ez77 16y ago
    but I mail you the test cases, configs, code and details where jquery-ui breaks when it hijacks the UI of the browser This technical part is the most relevant as a public comment/link in HN, in my opinion.
dualogy 16y ago
jQuery != jQuery UI

by jcr 16y ago

rhizome 16y ago

You're right on many points, of course, but hyperboles of cruelty like "kicking the crutches out...just to see them fall and...you think it will make you look cool" don't seem to be grounded in reality.

jcr 16y ago
Your criticism is fair, and I should have written something better. I won't edit the original and I'll stand by my mistake since it would make your comment seem off. The thing to realize is I was REALLY trying to contain my temper when the hyperbole slipped out. It's tough be positive while share a perspective of frustration few developers ever see.

arkitaip 16y ago

Not sure that jQuery deserves to be blamed for shoddy interface coding. Any competent web developer knows that you always start out by designing your interfaces so that they work with scripts and plugins disabled [1]. If some - ok, most - devs choose to ignore this design principle then jQuery is hardly to blame. [1] Obviously there are situations when it simply isn't possible to create fully accessible solutions. Sometimes our hands are tied by management, tech stack requirements, etc.

jeresig 16y ago

I'm not really sure what you're responding to, specifically. You do realize that jQuery UI (and jQuery Mobile) are both ARIA compliant, right? This means that it's actually far easier to use these UIs then you might expect. ARIA is very cool stuff - definitely recommend that you check it out! http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/ http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/

jcr 16y ago
John, it might be a day or four for me to type them up, but I mail you the test cases, configs, code and details where jquery-ui breaks when it hijacks the UI of the browser. I've tracked the problem to a faulty assumption, namely assuming the user-agent doesn't already have any existing user specified key bindings defined for special needs access. The conflict breaks all key bindings, including the defaults.
- ez77 16y ago
  but I mail you the test cases, configs, code and details where jquery-ui breaks when it hijacks the UI of the browser This technical part is the most relevant as a public comment/link in HN, in my opinion.

dualogy 16y ago

jQuery != jQuery UI