4 ms·

The problem with UBI is that most versions of it would essentially liquidate social services that people would normally receive. UBI only makes sense in additio

The problem with UBI is that most versions of it would essentially liquidate social services that people would normally receive. UBI only makes sense in addition to the other parts of a comprehensive safety net (universal housing and healthcare), not as a replacement.

skybrian 7y ago
The conservatives into UBI are hoping for that but at least with Yang's plan there was the choice of continuing with old benefits if they are higher. Although this choice is probably pretty easy mathematically, it's kind of a terrible choice to have to make, so after a while the plan changed to saying it would stack on top of some other benefits. (But none of this matters because whatever Congress might do would be different.)
bavell 7y ago
Why would I choose to jump through bureaucratic and degrading welfare programs for vouchers and discounts when I can opt-in to a superior UBI program that gives me cash which I can use for anything? I'm the one who best knows how to effectively allocate those resources in my life. E.g. What good are food stamps when I have no gas (or car) to get to the store? There are some social services that are necessary and beneficial but these should be built on top of a UBI foundation for maximum effectiveness.
- monadic2 7y ago
  UBI still does not provide health care.
  - bavell 7y ago
    Right. It also doesn't address climate change. Or gay rights, regime-change wars, or gender discrimination. It just provides every American with increased economic freedom. It's a good thing my doctor accepts USD :)
    - monadic2 7y ago
      > It's a good thing my doctor accepts USD :) That $1000 check will only cover the ride to the hospital before tax.
- puzzledobserver 7y ago
  Ohh, but then the UBI recipient may use it to purchase something that Big Brother doesn't want them to buy... like using SNAP to buy hot food. On a more serious note, yes. Beyond basic necessities like healthcare and education, that the government would like to micromanage lives of welfare recipients feels demeaning in the extreme.
- asdf9240 7y ago
  > I'm the one who best knows how to effectively allocate those resources in my life. Some people do not get good enough education and do not know how to effectively allocate resources. > There are some social services that are necessary and beneficial but these should be built on top of a UBI foundation for maximum effectiveness. Do you mean the other way around? Necessary social services should be the foundation with UBI built on top of it. Social services can do some things better than UBI can even when assuming everyone uses their UBI completely rationally.
  - derrick_jensen 7y ago
    Exactly. If you knew how to best allocate resources in your life, you probably wouldn't be in a situation where you need UBI.
- luckylion 7y ago
  > Why would I choose to jump through bureaucratic and degrading welfare programs for vouchers and discounts when I can opt-in to a superior UBI program that gives me cash which I can use for anything? Because we'll have an issue when you spend your UBI on anything and then need assistance with rent, food etc pp.
- theklub 7y ago
  How many people would take UBI, buy drugs, alcohol, hell go down to the casino every month and blow it all in 30 seconds....
godelski 7y ago
Most people receive far less than $1k/mo. Yang's plan was to allow the option so that if you were one of the few that did receive more, you wouldn't have to give that up.
- devcpp 7y ago
  Median income in the USA in 2017 was is $31,099/year.
alkibiades 7y ago
you don’t explain why. i think the opposite. that it should only work as a replacement. part of the draw is it’s more efficient than existing programs

skybrian 7y ago

The conservatives into UBI are hoping for that but at least with Yang's plan there was the choice of continuing with old benefits if they are higher. Although this choice is probably pretty easy mathematically, it's kind of a terrible choice to have to make, so after a while the plan changed to saying it would stack on top of some other benefits. (But none of this matters because whatever Congress might do would be different.)

bavell 7y ago

Why would I choose to jump through bureaucratic and degrading welfare programs for vouchers and discounts when I can opt-in to a superior UBI program that gives me cash which I can use for anything? I'm the one who best knows how to effectively allocate those resources in my life. E.g. What good are food stamps when I have no gas (or car) to get to the store? There are some social services that are necessary and beneficial but these should be built on top of a UBI foundation for maximum effectiveness.

monadic2 7y ago
UBI still does not provide health care.
- bavell 7y ago
  Right. It also doesn't address climate change. Or gay rights, regime-change wars, or gender discrimination. It just provides every American with increased economic freedom. It's a good thing my doctor accepts USD :)
  - monadic2 7y ago
    > It's a good thing my doctor accepts USD :) That $1000 check will only cover the ride to the hospital before tax.
puzzledobserver 7y ago
Ohh, but then the UBI recipient may use it to purchase something that Big Brother doesn't want them to buy... like using SNAP to buy hot food. On a more serious note, yes. Beyond basic necessities like healthcare and education, that the government would like to micromanage lives of welfare recipients feels demeaning in the extreme.
asdf9240 7y ago
> I'm the one who best knows how to effectively allocate those resources in my life. Some people do not get good enough education and do not know how to effectively allocate resources. > There are some social services that are necessary and beneficial but these should be built on top of a UBI foundation for maximum effectiveness. Do you mean the other way around? Necessary social services should be the foundation with UBI built on top of it. Social services can do some things better than UBI can even when assuming everyone uses their UBI completely rationally.
- derrick_jensen 7y ago
  Exactly. If you knew how to best allocate resources in your life, you probably wouldn't be in a situation where you need UBI.
luckylion 7y ago
> Why would I choose to jump through bureaucratic and degrading welfare programs for vouchers and discounts when I can opt-in to a superior UBI program that gives me cash which I can use for anything? Because we'll have an issue when you spend your UBI on anything and then need assistance with rent, food etc pp.
theklub 7y ago
How many people would take UBI, buy drugs, alcohol, hell go down to the casino every month and blow it all in 30 seconds....

godelski 7y ago

Most people receive far less than $1k/mo. Yang's plan was to allow the option so that if you were one of the few that did receive more, you wouldn't have to give that up.

devcpp 7y ago
Median income in the USA in 2017 was is $31,099/year.

alkibiades 7y ago

you don’t explain why. i think the opposite. that it should only work as a replacement. part of the draw is it’s more efficient than existing programs