3 ms·

> it is an action taken in bad faith So is a hotel denying you a refund during an epidemic. There is an obvious power differential here between Joe Blow and so

> it is an action taken in bad faith So is a hotel denying you a refund during an epidemic. There is an obvious power differential here between Joe Blow and some billion dollar hotel chain. You need the money for basic survival far more than they need it to pad their quarterly earnings.

chadash 7y ago
By booking a non-refundable rate, which is generally cheaper, you took that risk. So long as the hotel is open, it's not really their problem. The fact that they have more money than you doesn't give you the right to steal from them. If you really need the money for basic survival, fine, we can argue about the morality of it. But even with a possible recession looming, it's unlikely that the price of a hotel stay is going to be the difference between life and death for you. It's unlikely you are in basic survival mode yet, unless you've already lost your job and are living paycheck to paycheck and there are no available government programs to help you right now and no friends or family to turn to.
- lmartel 7y ago
  Nonrefundable rates are not marketed as a bet against global catastrophe. They're a commitment that you won't change your mind. This epidemic is more similar to the hotel burning down. I would expect my money back in that scenario and do whatever I could to retrieve it.
  - listenallyall 7y ago
    No, they are marketed as "non-refundable." As in, you don't come, you don't get a refund. End of story. With that said, many hotel chains and airlines have suspended their typical non-refundable rules, so a simple phone call would likely suffice.
    - hrktb 7y ago
      You had to explain what “non-refundable” should be interpreted as. I think we can agree different people will have different interpretations. I’d also expect any terms in the actual ToS defining “non-refundble” to get void in front of a judge in this specific cases if this was really pushed that far.
    - gjs278 7y ago
      what if the hotel CEO came and murdered your entire family right in front of you a day before the reservation? he was then prosecuted and admitted guilt in a court of law. refund yet?
  - gnaritas 7y ago
    No, non-refundable means non-refundable. You don't have a right to expect your money back under any circumstance.
parallel 7y ago
Needing the money more doesn't change the agreement.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
gnaritas 7y ago
> So is a hotel denying you a refund during an epidemic. No it isn't. They're not your family, they don't owe you a refund, you agreed to the cancellation policy at purchase time. Abide by the terms or you are the one in the wrong.
jhanschoo 7y ago
I don't think you understand what "bad faith" means. Bad faith refers to signalling that they will act in one way without any intention of following through. When a non-refundable booking is made, both sides understand that the correct way to follow through is to not have a refund, should circumstances (not caused by the hotel) arise where the customer could not end up staying in the hotel. Hence there was no bad faith on the part of the hotel.

chadash 7y ago

By booking a non-refundable rate, which is generally cheaper, you took that risk. So long as the hotel is open, it's not really their problem. The fact that they have more money than you doesn't give you the right to steal from them. If you really need the money for basic survival, fine, we can argue about the morality of it. But even with a possible recession looming, it's unlikely that the price of a hotel stay is going to be the difference between life and death for you. It's unlikely you are in basic survival mode yet, unless you've already lost your job and are living paycheck to paycheck and there are no available government programs to help you right now and no friends or family to turn to.

lmartel 7y ago
Nonrefundable rates are not marketed as a bet against global catastrophe. They're a commitment that you won't change your mind. This epidemic is more similar to the hotel burning down. I would expect my money back in that scenario and do whatever I could to retrieve it.
- listenallyall 7y ago
  No, they are marketed as "non-refundable." As in, you don't come, you don't get a refund. End of story. With that said, many hotel chains and airlines have suspended their typical non-refundable rules, so a simple phone call would likely suffice.
  - hrktb 7y ago
    You had to explain what “non-refundable” should be interpreted as. I think we can agree different people will have different interpretations. I’d also expect any terms in the actual ToS defining “non-refundble” to get void in front of a judge in this specific cases if this was really pushed that far.
  - gjs278 7y ago
    what if the hotel CEO came and murdered your entire family right in front of you a day before the reservation? he was then prosecuted and admitted guilt in a court of law. refund yet?
- gnaritas 7y ago
  No, non-refundable means non-refundable. You don't have a right to expect your money back under any circumstance.

parallel 7y ago

Needing the money more doesn't change the agreement.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

gnaritas 7y ago

> So is a hotel denying you a refund during an epidemic. No it isn't. They're not your family, they don't owe you a refund, you agreed to the cancellation policy at purchase time. Abide by the terms or you are the one in the wrong.

jhanschoo 7y ago

I don't think you understand what "bad faith" means. Bad faith refers to signalling that they will act in one way without any intention of following through. When a non-refundable booking is made, both sides understand that the correct way to follow through is to not have a refund, should circumstances (not caused by the hotel) arise where the customer could not end up staying in the hotel. Hence there was no bad faith on the part of the hotel.