3 ms·

>The companies enjoy a relatively stable environment: roads, power grid, and security do to US soldiers willing to risk their lives. In my mind it's perfectly a

by jimmyk 16y ago

>The companies enjoy a relatively stable environment: roads, power grid, and security do to US soldiers willing to risk their lives. In my mind it's perfectly acceptable to make them play by certain rules. This line of reasoning can be used to justify the majority forcing the minority to do literally anything. Your claim is that their reliance on society trumps one of their fundamental human rights. Do you really find that acceptable?

rbanffy 16y ago
Should corporations have human rights? A human can get imprisoned for committing a crime. A corporation cannot. It seems only fair they don't get human rights.
- jimmyk 16y ago
  You know that corporations are comprised of human beings, right? By forcing a corporation to do something, you are forcing human beings to do something.
  - rbanffy 16y ago
    What happens when you incarcerate a CEO? HR hires another, PR makes some noises to press as how former CEO didn't represent corporate values, lobbyists control the damage with legislators and business continues as usual.
    - jimmyk 16y ago
      That seems to be a complaint about corporations themselves, as in the legal entities granted immunities by their government. I'm not about to defend them in any fashion.
dhimes 16y ago
Um, be drafted? Pay taxes? Yes. We can force each other to play by rules. Fundamental human right? Bah. It's well established that in the US companies can be forced to do business with minorities, protestants, females, Democrats...plenty of people they may otherwise wish they didn't have to (well, maybe not Democrats). This idea that companies should be able to do whatever they can is nonsense (in fact, I'd go so far as to say it's poisonous, but that's for another post). Besides, I'm not forcing them to do anything. They are welcome to move their company to Sierra Leone.
- jimmyk 16y ago
  >Um, be drafted? Pay taxes? Yes. We can force each other to play by rules. Taxes are a (perhaps) necessary evil. It is best not to use necessary evils as precedent for other infringements on human rights. And drafts are also an infringement on human rights. >Fundamental human right? Bah. Ok.. >It's well established that in the US companies can be forced to do business with minorities, protestants, females, Democrats...plenty of people they may otherwise wish they didn't have to (well, maybe not Democrats). It was well established until the 1860's that humans could be slaves. That something is established is not justification for that thing. >This idea that companies should be able to do whatever they can is nonsense (in fact, I'd go so far as to say it's poisonous, but that's for another post). Who said anything about that? >Besides, I'm not forcing them to do anything. They are welcome to move their company to Sierra Leone. Seriously? How does this sound: You can either give me your money, or I can torch your house. I'm not forcing you to do anything, but if you don't want to give me your money, I'll torch your house. You can always move down the road, but your house is gone if I don't get your money. Sound good to you? Or does it sound like I'm forcing you to do something?
  - dhimes 16y ago
    Sorry- travel day for me. >It's well established that in the US companies can be forced to do business with minorities, protestants, females, Democrats...plenty of people they may otherwise wish they didn't have to (well, maybe not Democrats)...It was well established until the 1860's that humans could be slaves. That something is established is not justification for that thing. So you really are arguing that...companies should be allowed to...wait... What exactly are you aguing? That a fundamental human right is being denied to a company? Which one? Why should companies have fundamental human rights? They are legal entities, not humans. And they are not allowed, by the way, to violate the human rights of those who work for them. The people who make up the company != company. And to the point your were making on my comment: I agree with that fact that we can force terms of business on companies (even mine), and I agree with the now well-established fact that it is illegal to have human slaves. Seriously? How does this sound: You can either give me your money, or I can torch your house. I'm not forcing you to do anything, but if you don't want to give me your money, I'll torch your house. You can always move down the road, but your house is gone if I don't get your money. Sound good to you? Or does it sound like I'm forcing you to do something? It is at this point that I suspected you were trolling, but your profile says you are "well established" on this board so, contrary to your argument above, I should take it seriously. Your analogy could be improved, as you are using extortion as your hypothesis. Try this: You can either stop beating your wife, or we will put you in jail. If you wish to continue beating your wife, you should move your family to a place where you can get away with such behavior. But we won't let you do it here.

by jimmyk 16y ago

rbanffy 16y ago

Should corporations have human rights? A human can get imprisoned for committing a crime. A corporation cannot. It seems only fair they don't get human rights.

jimmyk 16y ago
You know that corporations are comprised of human beings, right? By forcing a corporation to do something, you are forcing human beings to do something.
- rbanffy 16y ago
  What happens when you incarcerate a CEO? HR hires another, PR makes some noises to press as how former CEO didn't represent corporate values, lobbyists control the damage with legislators and business continues as usual.
  - jimmyk 16y ago
    That seems to be a complaint about corporations themselves, as in the legal entities granted immunities by their government. I'm not about to defend them in any fashion.

dhimes 16y ago

Um, be drafted? Pay taxes? Yes. We can force each other to play by rules. Fundamental human right? Bah. It's well established that in the US companies can be forced to do business with minorities, protestants, females, Democrats...plenty of people they may otherwise wish they didn't have to (well, maybe not Democrats). This idea that companies should be able to do whatever they can is nonsense (in fact, I'd go so far as to say it's poisonous, but that's for another post). Besides, I'm not forcing them to do anything. They are welcome to move their company to Sierra Leone.

jimmyk 16y ago
>Um, be drafted? Pay taxes? Yes. We can force each other to play by rules. Taxes are a (perhaps) necessary evil. It is best not to use necessary evils as precedent for other infringements on human rights. And drafts are also an infringement on human rights. >Fundamental human right? Bah. Ok.. >It's well established that in the US companies can be forced to do business with minorities, protestants, females, Democrats...plenty of people they may otherwise wish they didn't have to (well, maybe not Democrats). It was well established until the 1860's that humans could be slaves. That something is established is not justification for that thing. >This idea that companies should be able to do whatever they can is nonsense (in fact, I'd go so far as to say it's poisonous, but that's for another post). Who said anything about that? >Besides, I'm not forcing them to do anything. They are welcome to move their company to Sierra Leone. Seriously? How does this sound: You can either give me your money, or I can torch your house. I'm not forcing you to do anything, but if you don't want to give me your money, I'll torch your house. You can always move down the road, but your house is gone if I don't get your money. Sound good to you? Or does it sound like I'm forcing you to do something?
- dhimes 16y ago
  Sorry- travel day for me. >It's well established that in the US companies can be forced to do business with minorities, protestants, females, Democrats...plenty of people they may otherwise wish they didn't have to (well, maybe not Democrats)...It was well established until the 1860's that humans could be slaves. That something is established is not justification for that thing. So you really are arguing that...companies should be allowed to...wait... What exactly are you aguing? That a fundamental human right is being denied to a company? Which one? Why should companies have fundamental human rights? They are legal entities, not humans. And they are not allowed, by the way, to violate the human rights of those who work for them. The people who make up the company != company. And to the point your were making on my comment: I agree with that fact that we can force terms of business on companies (even mine), and I agree with the now well-established fact that it is illegal to have human slaves. Seriously? How does this sound: You can either give me your money, or I can torch your house. I'm not forcing you to do anything, but if you don't want to give me your money, I'll torch your house. You can always move down the road, but your house is gone if I don't get your money. Sound good to you? Or does it sound like I'm forcing you to do something? It is at this point that I suspected you were trolling, but your profile says you are "well established" on this board so, contrary to your argument above, I should take it seriously. Your analogy could be improved, as you are using extortion as your hypothesis. Try this: You can either stop beating your wife, or we will put you in jail. If you wish to continue beating your wife, you should move your family to a place where you can get away with such behavior. But we won't let you do it here.