5 ms·

Not sure I follow how the milk as a substitute for water analogy translates to housing. There are no substitutes for housing in desirable areas. When the entire

Not sure I follow how the milk as a substitute for water analogy translates to housing. There are no substitutes for housing in desirable areas. When the entire working class suddenly has more income, it doesn't create more housing, it pushes up the price of housing. Sure we could build more, but why? After all, if the price of affordable housing goes up, so does less affordable housing, and luxury housing. And we end up in the same place, except with inflation.

qqqwerty 7y ago
UBI removes the geographical constraints that have been distorting the US housing market. There are plenty of areas in the country that would gladly absorb excess housing demand, but the lack the jobs and economic prospects of those areas make it difficult under current circumstances.
- MR4D 7y ago
  This makes no sense. For example, even with UBI, a startup will still tend to want to locate in Silicon Valley than in, say, Amarillo Texas. The sheer ability to grab a drink with someone who can change you life in tech does not exist in the same proportion in Amarillo as it does in Silicon Valley. Hence, housing prices will differ. This is also why there are more oil companies in Houston than in Atlanta, despite the roughly same size metro area.
- akvadrako 7y ago
  Right - UBI could be one of the best solutions to the housing issue. It would be even better combined with another libertarian idea, land value tax.
- ukabwlsbeux 7y ago
  If people are moving to areas that lack jobs and economic prospects, because they can survive on UBI, you’ve just burdened a bunch of small towns with people who aren’t interested in making more money. Towns need tax revenue, which doesn’t come in sufficient quantity from people happily volunteering on a UBI wage.
  - qqqwerty 7y ago
    These places are already overburdened by people living off of social security and disability insurance. At least with UBI they will get a better mix of working aged and abled bodied individuals.
hyperpallium 7y ago
Yes. Also, first home owner's grants increased prices. Reduced interest rates increased house prices. Perhaps the great covid-19 WFH experiment will (partially) undermine the housing geography monopoly. Would socialist free housing, utilities, food, medical care, education might work better than UBI? What incentives would make capitalism provide them?
- Fjolsvith 7y ago
  Capitalism can't provide housing, utilities, food, medical care and education for free. People would just quit their job if they got all that with no effort. Then how would the government be able to pay for the free stuff if it wasn't able to tax workers? Edit: It occurred to me the government could lock people up in work camps in order to be able to tax them.
  - boomboomsubban 7y ago
    >Edit: It occurred to me the government could lock people up in work camps in order to be able to tax them So people end up in a situation where they are forced to work in order to survive, the same situation they are in now.
    - Fjolsvith 7y ago
      Ah, but in Capitalism, they can choose not to work.
      - boomboomsubban 7y ago
        You could have the choice to refuse the UBI and end up in a similar position to homeless today, though most homeless did not make a choice not to work.
        Fjolsvith 7y ago
        But, could you choose to not be one of the taxpayers to fund UBI? I say if you want to do UBI, add a checkbox on the tax return where a person can choose to donate $1000 to the UBI program out of their tax refund. Let the UBI recipients all have an equal share of the funds collected from that checkbox.

qqqwerty 7y ago

UBI removes the geographical constraints that have been distorting the US housing market. There are plenty of areas in the country that would gladly absorb excess housing demand, but the lack the jobs and economic prospects of those areas make it difficult under current circumstances.

MR4D 7y ago
This makes no sense. For example, even with UBI, a startup will still tend to want to locate in Silicon Valley than in, say, Amarillo Texas. The sheer ability to grab a drink with someone who can change you life in tech does not exist in the same proportion in Amarillo as it does in Silicon Valley. Hence, housing prices will differ. This is also why there are more oil companies in Houston than in Atlanta, despite the roughly same size metro area.
akvadrako 7y ago
Right - UBI could be one of the best solutions to the housing issue. It would be even better combined with another libertarian idea, land value tax.
ukabwlsbeux 7y ago
If people are moving to areas that lack jobs and economic prospects, because they can survive on UBI, you’ve just burdened a bunch of small towns with people who aren’t interested in making more money. Towns need tax revenue, which doesn’t come in sufficient quantity from people happily volunteering on a UBI wage.
- qqqwerty 7y ago
  These places are already overburdened by people living off of social security and disability insurance. At least with UBI they will get a better mix of working aged and abled bodied individuals.

hyperpallium 7y ago

Yes. Also, first home owner's grants increased prices. Reduced interest rates increased house prices. Perhaps the great covid-19 WFH experiment will (partially) undermine the housing geography monopoly. Would socialist free housing, utilities, food, medical care, education might work better than UBI? What incentives would make capitalism provide them?

Fjolsvith 7y ago
Capitalism can't provide housing, utilities, food, medical care and education for free. People would just quit their job if they got all that with no effort. Then how would the government be able to pay for the free stuff if it wasn't able to tax workers? Edit: It occurred to me the government could lock people up in work camps in order to be able to tax them.
- boomboomsubban 7y ago
  >Edit: It occurred to me the government could lock people up in work camps in order to be able to tax them So people end up in a situation where they are forced to work in order to survive, the same situation they are in now.
  - Fjolsvith 7y ago
    Ah, but in Capitalism, they can choose not to work.
    - boomboomsubban 7y ago
      You could have the choice to refuse the UBI and end up in a similar position to homeless today, though most homeless did not make a choice not to work.
      - Fjolsvith 7y ago
        But, could you choose to not be one of the taxpayers to fund UBI? I say if you want to do UBI, add a checkbox on the tax return where a person can choose to donate $1000 to the UBI program out of their tax refund. Let the UBI recipients all have an equal share of the funds collected from that checkbox.