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That's a subjective political opinion of a far-left vocal minority. Not everyone has an issue with ICE (a federal law-enforcement agency that stops criminals an

That's a subjective political opinion of a far-left vocal minority. Not everyone has an issue with ICE (a federal law-enforcement agency that stops criminals and saves lives) nor finds a problem with a company legally providing services to the government.

Dahoon 7y ago
>That's a subjective political opinion of a far-left vocal minority What you are talking about is Right-wing politics, even if they are extremely far to the left of your -and the majority of peoples political view -in the USA. Both parties in the US are on the right. This isn't Reddit where the state of US politics is the default norm when it differs from most of planet earth. Though HN is quickly getting there.
- manigandham 7y ago
  Open/loose borders is far left policy everywhere. Most countries are far stricter with borders than the US.
  - IAmEveryone 7y ago
    ICE doesn't protect the border, that's United States Customs and Border Protection (CBP). ICE are the goons operating everywhere (i. e. not tied to the border) rounding up "suspected illegal immigrants". Because it isn't exactly hard to find illegal immigrants, and their charter allows them to control people without objective cause, ICE gets to arbitrarily decide whom to harass. It's the real-life version of the perennial fear of civil libertarians that too many criminal laws will just lead to any one of us being arrested whenever it happens to be convenient for whoever is currently in power. It isn't going to end illegal immigration, nor curtail it to any significant degree. It just serves to keep a large segment of the people who see every day in a constant state of fear, unable to (for example) seek protection from crime or exploitation for fear of being deported.
    - manigandham 7y ago
      ICE is the enforcement arm for immigration, which handles people who cross the border. Obviously if there's a strong border then there's no problem in the first place. As for the rest of your comment, this is the far-left extremist position that I cited in my first post. There's no good faith discussion to be had here.
      - dragonwriter 7y ago
        > ICE is the enforcement arm for immigration, which handles people who cross the border No, it's the enforcement arm for immigration and customs, the former of which is people who are living in the US despite not being US citizens. Enforcement of people (and goods) crossing the border is the Border Patrol and it's parent organization Customs and Border Protection.
        manigandham 7y ago
        Sure, but the parent posts are discussing (illegal) immigration which is the jurisdiction of ICE. There's not much controversy over the people who cross illegally but stay temporarily and close to the border. Those are just traffickers and cartels.
ptato 7y ago
I guess every person who was put in a cage near the border of the US was a huge danger. https://www.aclu.org/issues/immigrants-rights/ice-and-border-patrol-abuses https://www.aclu.org/issues/immigrants-rights/ice-and-border...
- manigandham 7y ago
  To keep this as straightforward as possible: Illegal immigration is a crime and is enforced just like any other. Committing crime can mean incarceration, which many US citizens face everyday. It has nothing to do with being a "danger", but when you don't have permission to even be in the country then there's no bail or other release possible. Also detainment centers are not cages but fenced areas with free movement inside where people receive food, shelter, healthcare, entertainment, schooling and legal services paid for by US taxpayers while their cases are processed. Detainees are free to deport themselves at any time. This is more accommodating than pretty much every other developed nation.
  - aredridel 7y ago
    Almost every word of this is a lie, misleading or poor framing.
    - manigandham 7y ago
      It's 100% factual except for the last sentence which can be argued.
  - sneak 7y ago
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/27/us/immigrant-children-sexual-abuse.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/27/us/immigrant-children-sex... https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/inside-a-texas-building-where-the-government-is-holding-immigrant-children https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/inside-a-texas-buildi...
    - manigandham 7y ago
sneak 7y ago
The fact that ICE has built concentration camps (as verified by scholars who study concentration camps) is a fact, not a subjective or political opinion. The fact that there are children in these camps, many being raped, some being tortured, is also a documented fact, not a subjective opinion. These are well-documented facts that have been widely reported on in the mass media. You can find links to specific articles on my blog in the recent article about Microsoft and GitHub, if you wish to learn specifics. The kids are in there right now, as I write to you. Whether or not Microsoft's provisioning of services to the government is "legal" or not is not particularly relevant to the thread, but it is interesting that you bring it up, presumably as a defense of their behavior. Again: This is not a partisan thing. At all. Your attempt to reduce it to such is inaccurate (and, tbqf, off-topic for the thread about Microsoft-the-corporation, as well as off-topic for HN). https://galaxypress.com/inspired-philip-k-dick/ https://galaxypress.com/inspired-philip-k-dick/
- manigandham 7y ago
  Concentration camps are for political prisoners. These are not the same. And there are US citizens and children in jails and juvenile detention too, which is what happens when crimes are committed. I'm a naturalized immigrant. I've been in far worse places than America. I suggest you visit CBP and ICE. Talk to the agents. Visit the border. See the shelters. View the damage done by criminals who prey on these people and find out how much the agents do to help them while risking their lives fighting cartels and traffickers. Like I said, America is far softer with borders than other nations. Crossing illegally brings enforcement and penalties. I'm not sure why this is so controversial, or why protest against govt organizations is done by proxy of software companies.

Dahoon 7y ago

>That's a subjective political opinion of a far-left vocal minority What you are talking about is Right-wing politics, even if they are extremely far to the left of your -and the majority of peoples political view -in the USA. Both parties in the US are on the right. This isn't Reddit where the state of US politics is the default norm when it differs from most of planet earth. Though HN is quickly getting there.

manigandham 7y ago
Open/loose borders is far left policy everywhere. Most countries are far stricter with borders than the US.
- IAmEveryone 7y ago
  ICE doesn't protect the border, that's United States Customs and Border Protection (CBP). ICE are the goons operating everywhere (i. e. not tied to the border) rounding up "suspected illegal immigrants". Because it isn't exactly hard to find illegal immigrants, and their charter allows them to control people without objective cause, ICE gets to arbitrarily decide whom to harass. It's the real-life version of the perennial fear of civil libertarians that too many criminal laws will just lead to any one of us being arrested whenever it happens to be convenient for whoever is currently in power. It isn't going to end illegal immigration, nor curtail it to any significant degree. It just serves to keep a large segment of the people who see every day in a constant state of fear, unable to (for example) seek protection from crime or exploitation for fear of being deported.
  - manigandham 7y ago
    ICE is the enforcement arm for immigration, which handles people who cross the border. Obviously if there's a strong border then there's no problem in the first place. As for the rest of your comment, this is the far-left extremist position that I cited in my first post. There's no good faith discussion to be had here.
    - dragonwriter 7y ago
      > ICE is the enforcement arm for immigration, which handles people who cross the border No, it's the enforcement arm for immigration and customs, the former of which is people who are living in the US despite not being US citizens. Enforcement of people (and goods) crossing the border is the Border Patrol and it's parent organization Customs and Border Protection.
      - manigandham 7y ago
        Sure, but the parent posts are discussing (illegal) immigration which is the jurisdiction of ICE. There's not much controversy over the people who cross illegally but stay temporarily and close to the border. Those are just traffickers and cartels.

ptato 7y ago

I guess every person who was put in a cage near the border of the US was a huge danger. https://www.aclu.org/issues/immigrants-rights/ice-and-border-patrol-abuses https://www.aclu.org/issues/immigrants-rights/ice-and-border...

manigandham 7y ago
To keep this as straightforward as possible: Illegal immigration is a crime and is enforced just like any other. Committing crime can mean incarceration, which many US citizens face everyday. It has nothing to do with being a "danger", but when you don't have permission to even be in the country then there's no bail or other release possible. Also detainment centers are not cages but fenced areas with free movement inside where people receive food, shelter, healthcare, entertainment, schooling and legal services paid for by US taxpayers while their cases are processed. Detainees are free to deport themselves at any time. This is more accommodating than pretty much every other developed nation.
- aredridel 7y ago
  Almost every word of this is a lie, misleading or poor framing.
  - manigandham 7y ago
    It's 100% factual except for the last sentence which can be argued.
- sneak 7y ago
  https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/27/us/immigrant-children-sexual-abuse.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/27/us/immigrant-children-sex... https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/inside-a-texas-building-where-the-government-is-holding-immigrant-children https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/inside-a-texas-buildi...
  - manigandham 7y ago

sneak 7y ago

The fact that ICE has built concentration camps (as verified by scholars who study concentration camps) is a fact, not a subjective or political opinion. The fact that there are children in these camps, many being raped, some being tortured, is also a documented fact, not a subjective opinion. These are well-documented facts that have been widely reported on in the mass media. You can find links to specific articles on my blog in the recent article about Microsoft and GitHub, if you wish to learn specifics. The kids are in there right now, as I write to you. Whether or not Microsoft's provisioning of services to the government is "legal" or not is not particularly relevant to the thread, but it is interesting that you bring it up, presumably as a defense of their behavior. Again: This is not a partisan thing. At all. Your attempt to reduce it to such is inaccurate (and, tbqf, off-topic for the thread about Microsoft-the-corporation, as well as off-topic for HN). https://galaxypress.com/inspired-philip-k-dick/ https://galaxypress.com/inspired-philip-k-dick/

manigandham 7y ago
Concentration camps are for political prisoners. These are not the same. And there are US citizens and children in jails and juvenile detention too, which is what happens when crimes are committed. I'm a naturalized immigrant. I've been in far worse places than America. I suggest you visit CBP and ICE. Talk to the agents. Visit the border. See the shelters. View the damage done by criminals who prey on these people and find out how much the agents do to help them while risking their lives fighting cartels and traffickers. Like I said, America is far softer with borders than other nations. Crossing illegally brings enforcement and penalties. I'm not sure why this is so controversial, or why protest against govt organizations is done by proxy of software companies.