5 ms·

I definitely saw Microsoft-of-the-90s as corrupt and harmful, and I definitely see Google-of-today as corrupt and harmful. I am not wholly opposed to the idea t

I definitely saw Microsoft-of-the-90s as corrupt and harmful, and I definitely see Google-of-today as corrupt and harmful. I am not wholly opposed to the idea that both are bigger than companies should be allowed to be. But apart from the fact that they followed the unfortunate modern trend to add telemetry to things, I can't really say Microsoft has done anything particularly offensive to me in the past... nearly a decade? Just because you've been a developer for 25 years doesn't mean you should evaluate a company based on 25 year old events.

jakelazaroff 7y ago
One especially odious thing recently: GitHub works with ICE to round up and terrorize undocumented people and their families. https://www.latimes.com/business/technology/story/2019-12-04/github-open-source-developers-ice-contract https://www.latimes.com/business/technology/story/2019-12-04...
- kortilla 7y ago
  If you want an action to be made legal, you legalize it. Don’t blame the enforcement of the law. It makes for great virtue signaling but is useless for bringing long-term change and it doesn’t help provide a stable environment for people illegally in the country.
  - noelherrick 7y ago
    The legislative process is not the only feedback system that is enshrined in the US constitution, else there would be no mention of public gatherings or protests. What you suggest is a false dichotomy.
  - jakelazaroff 7y ago
    ICE itself routinely breaks laws in trying to capture undocumented people. But to speak to your point directly, I would love to see immigration reform. Until then, I’ll absolutely keep speaking out against ICE. That’s not “virtue signaling”, it’s just advocating for a cause I care about. Furthermore, basically everything Microsoft did that made developers hate them is legal. Why is it okay to hold a grudge for “embrace, extend, extinguish” but not for aiding and abetting an organization that consistently violates our civil liberties?
jchw 7y ago
In my opinion Microsoft has done a great job as long as you can completely ignore everything about Windows 10. https://hothardware.com/news/microsoft-changes-offline-account-setup https://hothardware.com/news/microsoft-changes-offline-accou... https://www.howtogeek.com/519572/microsoft-is-testing-ads-in-wordpad-on-windows-10/ https://www.howtogeek.com/519572/microsoft-is-testing-ads-in... And that is all recent, on top of all the other stuff they won’t fix, like issues where file extensions magically reset to Windows defaults, nagging you to just please try Edge because its better for real this time, and the unavoidable mandatory Candy Crush - seriously, if you install with no internet connection, it will keep a placeholder there for you that will install as soon as you’re online. The telemetry issues are annoying too, not because they exist but because you have to read a books worth of literature to understand what they chose to document. Seriously: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/privacy/configure-windows-diagnostic-data-in-your-organization https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/privacy/configure-w... Windows 10, I wanted to like it but I can hardly tolerate it. Has Microsoft changed? Maybe, but apparently the Windows team didn’t get the memo.
- ocdtrekkie 7y ago
  I would generally agree Windows looks more like traditional Microsoft than many other arms of their org. And the Candy Crush thing... like, if it was just Home edition? Fine. If it was even smart enough to realize it need not preinstall that on a domain account (the installation of UWP apps is technically per-user), like, if they'd demonstrated any recognition that Windows is used in professional settings... I'm right there with you on this one. However... > like issues where file extensions magically reset to Windows defaults https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20190225-00/?p=101068 https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20190225-00/?p=10... is probably the best response to that. Given the number of Windows app developers who do unholy things with their apps, it's hardly a surprise. (My understanding is Windows has a huge number of secret compatibility shims just to keep major software vendors' bad hacks and API misuses working.) > nagging you to just please try Edge I literally can't escape "switch to Chrome" nags, as a Firefox user. Every Google site has at least one, Google's home page has displayed an amazing three Chrome popups at the same time before. I'd maybe give you this one if they weren't waging a war on it to a far more aggressive foe, and losing badly.

jakelazaroff 7y ago

One especially odious thing recently: GitHub works with ICE to round up and terrorize undocumented people and their families. https://www.latimes.com/business/technology/story/2019-12-04/github-open-source-developers-ice-contract https://www.latimes.com/business/technology/story/2019-12-04...

kortilla 7y ago
If you want an action to be made legal, you legalize it. Don’t blame the enforcement of the law. It makes for great virtue signaling but is useless for bringing long-term change and it doesn’t help provide a stable environment for people illegally in the country.
- noelherrick 7y ago
  The legislative process is not the only feedback system that is enshrined in the US constitution, else there would be no mention of public gatherings or protests. What you suggest is a false dichotomy.
- jakelazaroff 7y ago
  ICE itself routinely breaks laws in trying to capture undocumented people. But to speak to your point directly, I would love to see immigration reform. Until then, I’ll absolutely keep speaking out against ICE. That’s not “virtue signaling”, it’s just advocating for a cause I care about. Furthermore, basically everything Microsoft did that made developers hate them is legal. Why is it okay to hold a grudge for “embrace, extend, extinguish” but not for aiding and abetting an organization that consistently violates our civil liberties?

jchw 7y ago

In my opinion Microsoft has done a great job as long as you can completely ignore everything about Windows 10. https://hothardware.com/news/microsoft-changes-offline-account-setup https://hothardware.com/news/microsoft-changes-offline-accou... https://www.howtogeek.com/519572/microsoft-is-testing-ads-in-wordpad-on-windows-10/ https://www.howtogeek.com/519572/microsoft-is-testing-ads-in... And that is all recent, on top of all the other stuff they won’t fix, like issues where file extensions magically reset to Windows defaults, nagging you to just please try Edge because its better for real this time, and the unavoidable mandatory Candy Crush - seriously, if you install with no internet connection, it will keep a placeholder there for you that will install as soon as you’re online. The telemetry issues are annoying too, not because they exist but because you have to read a books worth of literature to understand what they chose to document. Seriously: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/privacy/configure-windows-diagnostic-data-in-your-organization https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/privacy/configure-w... Windows 10, I wanted to like it but I can hardly tolerate it. Has Microsoft changed? Maybe, but apparently the Windows team didn’t get the memo.

ocdtrekkie 7y ago
I would generally agree Windows looks more like traditional Microsoft than many other arms of their org. And the Candy Crush thing... like, if it was just Home edition? Fine. If it was even smart enough to realize it need not preinstall that on a domain account (the installation of UWP apps is technically per-user), like, if they'd demonstrated any recognition that Windows is used in professional settings... I'm right there with you on this one. However... > like issues where file extensions magically reset to Windows defaults https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20190225-00/?p=101068 https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20190225-00/?p=10... is probably the best response to that. Given the number of Windows app developers who do unholy things with their apps, it's hardly a surprise. (My understanding is Windows has a huge number of secret compatibility shims just to keep major software vendors' bad hacks and API misuses working.) > nagging you to just please try Edge I literally can't escape "switch to Chrome" nags, as a Firefox user. Every Google site has at least one, Google's home page has displayed an amazing three Chrome popups at the same time before. I'd maybe give you this one if they weren't waging a war on it to a far more aggressive foe, and losing badly.