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How do you both "don't give a fuck" while also "mak[ing] the effort to make them like me"?

by choxi 7y ago

ak39 7y ago
That’s always the problem with these forms of obliquitous advice - they are paradoxical. I’m not saying they don’t work or are necessarily to be dismissed because they seem practically impossible because they are on the surface self-limiting. I’m just saying that’s what they all share. Zen. Buddhism. Sufism. Stoicism. Minimalism. Less is more. You have to experience it to know it. The anti-thesis of science.
- openfuture 7y ago
  Actually, the manifestation of science.. Science is about testing (experiencing) your hypothesis not memorizing dogma. If someone says: “gravity is a thing” then as a scientist you think through the consequences, if something doesn't align with your expectation then you design an experiment. This way you realize the truth yourself, problem is that people use the word 'science' as 'that thing that other people do to find out the truth' (where 'truth' is the thing you are supposed to believe unquestioningly since you are not a priest, sorry.. scientist).
  - watwut 7y ago
    Scientists learn awful lot without checking from books, articles and talks. Each scientist tests and verifies only tiny little part of he or she considers science. And they typically assume that non cutting edge parts are correct, unless there is very strong reason to doubt that. It does cause too much inertia in some cases and it can be hard to overturn old theories, but it also makes science overall possible.
usui 7y ago
I believe the paradox you point out is taking it to the extreme. This is the parent poster's sentiment: You don't care deeply about a rejection outcome, but you care enough about a positive outcome to give it a shot and see what happens. If it happens to be the case that the receiving party rejects you, you should not care and move on easily. I think the benefit of making a good friend far outweighs the cost of rejection, so much so that we are willing to give it a few hundred shots. For some people, the chances are so low that the chances range in thousands, not hundreds, and then they start giving up.
zentiggr 7y ago
Think about it as "putting in the effort could be a net positive, if it works out, but if it doesn't it's not a big deal and it's fine to try again with someone else". Worth the effort, but not attaching overly much weight or importance to the outcome.
Ididntdothis 7y ago
You can try to make them like you but if they don’t it’s fine too and you can move on. It’s like sports. For some people losing is the worst thing and they go crazy. Other people like playing but they are fine losing and won’t stop playing. I have some level of social anxiety and for me rejection can be devastating for a long time. Other people I know will just move on from that rejection “no big deal”
wwweston 7y ago
Definitely some tension between the two. Maybe another way of saying it is that it's helpful to simultaneously work toward a specific outcome that you would enjoy or prefer, but not be attached to in a way that'd create resentment if it doesn't happen. Doing this when it comes to investing in relationships seems to decrease the sense of pressure and increase the sense of possibility and fun.
gowld 7y ago
Emotional distance. Talk to a doctor or criminal lawyer. An important part of the job is to work really hard without getting distracted by emotional response to the details.
rchaud 7y ago
> How do you both "don't give a fuck" while also "mak[ing] the effort to make them like me"? I'd say by doing the latter before the former. Make an attempt at socializing/conversation first. If you get the vibe that the person isn't interested, you can move on to someone else, without bitterness, anger or disappointment. Just because it didn't happen with that person, doesn't mean it won't happen with the next person too.
JadeNB 7y ago
One can try something without investing in others' perception of its success. I often make an effort to be likeable, but if people don't like me, then that's often their problem, not mine.

How do you both "don't give a fuck" while also "mak[ing] the effort to make them like me"?

by choxi 7y ago

How do you both "don't give a fuck" while also "mak[ing] the effort to make them like me"?

ak39 7y ago

That’s always the problem with these forms of obliquitous advice - they are paradoxical. I’m not saying they don’t work or are necessarily to be dismissed because they seem practically impossible because they are on the surface self-limiting. I’m just saying that’s what they all share. Zen. Buddhism. Sufism. Stoicism. Minimalism. Less is more. You have to experience it to know it. The anti-thesis of science.

openfuture 7y ago
Actually, the manifestation of science.. Science is about testing (experiencing) your hypothesis not memorizing dogma. If someone says: “gravity is a thing” then as a scientist you think through the consequences, if something doesn't align with your expectation then you design an experiment. This way you realize the truth yourself, problem is that people use the word 'science' as 'that thing that other people do to find out the truth' (where 'truth' is the thing you are supposed to believe unquestioningly since you are not a priest, sorry.. scientist).
- watwut 7y ago
  Scientists learn awful lot without checking from books, articles and talks. Each scientist tests and verifies only tiny little part of he or she considers science. And they typically assume that non cutting edge parts are correct, unless there is very strong reason to doubt that. It does cause too much inertia in some cases and it can be hard to overturn old theories, but it also makes science overall possible.

usui 7y ago

I believe the paradox you point out is taking it to the extreme. This is the parent poster's sentiment: You don't care deeply about a rejection outcome, but you care enough about a positive outcome to give it a shot and see what happens. If it happens to be the case that the receiving party rejects you, you should not care and move on easily. I think the benefit of making a good friend far outweighs the cost of rejection, so much so that we are willing to give it a few hundred shots. For some people, the chances are so low that the chances range in thousands, not hundreds, and then they start giving up.

zentiggr 7y ago

Think about it as "putting in the effort could be a net positive, if it works out, but if it doesn't it's not a big deal and it's fine to try again with someone else". Worth the effort, but not attaching overly much weight or importance to the outcome.

Ididntdothis 7y ago

You can try to make them like you but if they don’t it’s fine too and you can move on. It’s like sports. For some people losing is the worst thing and they go crazy. Other people like playing but they are fine losing and won’t stop playing. I have some level of social anxiety and for me rejection can be devastating for a long time. Other people I know will just move on from that rejection “no big deal”

wwweston 7y ago

Definitely some tension between the two. Maybe another way of saying it is that it's helpful to simultaneously work toward a specific outcome that you would enjoy or prefer, but not be attached to in a way that'd create resentment if it doesn't happen. Doing this when it comes to investing in relationships seems to decrease the sense of pressure and increase the sense of possibility and fun.

gowld 7y ago

Emotional distance. Talk to a doctor or criminal lawyer. An important part of the job is to work really hard without getting distracted by emotional response to the details.

rchaud 7y ago

> How do you both "don't give a fuck" while also "mak[ing] the effort to make them like me"? I'd say by doing the latter before the former. Make an attempt at socializing/conversation first. If you get the vibe that the person isn't interested, you can move on to someone else, without bitterness, anger or disappointment. Just because it didn't happen with that person, doesn't mean it won't happen with the next person too.

JadeNB 7y ago

One can try something without investing in others' perception of its success. I often make an effort to be likeable, but if people don't like me, then that's often their problem, not mine.