9 ms·

I’ve been a developer for nearly 25 years. I’m not sure if there is anything MS could ever do to regain my trust. Unfortunately this seems to be the way of larg

I’ve been a developer for nearly 25 years. I’m not sure if there is anything MS could ever do to regain my trust. Unfortunately this seems to be the way of large tech companies. At one time I thought Google was the best thing ever (don’t be evil). Now I find that I view Google in much the same way as I do MS. A huge corrupt behemoth that needs to be broken up.

dcgudeman 7y ago
Well you certainly picked a username that reflects your views.
- irrational 7y ago
  What do irrational numbers like phi have to do with the lack of ethics of large corporations?
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
pgt 7y ago
This is the curse of globalist behemoths. Small companies is where it's at. Localism.
- crispinb 7y ago
  Nonsense. There is hardly a local government in Australia not hopelessly corrupted by local real estate interests. In many nations local corruption is endemic right down to every neighbourhood police station. Size isn't the question: money's corruption of power operates at all scales.
  - pgt 7y ago
    Size is absolutely the question. There is always corruption, but in small municipalities at least the scale of corruption is contained. In a sufficiently local area the corrupt has to brush shoulders with his unwilling benefactors and be shamed.
    - crispinb 7y ago
      Empirically, that's plainly false. Corruption declines, on any level, when the right policies & incentives are in place.
ocdtrekkie 7y ago
I definitely saw Microsoft-of-the-90s as corrupt and harmful, and I definitely see Google-of-today as corrupt and harmful. I am not wholly opposed to the idea that both are bigger than companies should be allowed to be. But apart from the fact that they followed the unfortunate modern trend to add telemetry to things, I can't really say Microsoft has done anything particularly offensive to me in the past... nearly a decade? Just because you've been a developer for 25 years doesn't mean you should evaluate a company based on 25 year old events.
- jakelazaroff 7y ago
  One especially odious thing recently: GitHub works with ICE to round up and terrorize undocumented people and their families. https://www.latimes.com/business/technology/story/2019-12-04/github-open-source-developers-ice-contract https://www.latimes.com/business/technology/story/2019-12-04...
  - kortilla 7y ago
    If you want an action to be made legal, you legalize it. Don’t blame the enforcement of the law. It makes for great virtue signaling but is useless for bringing long-term change and it doesn’t help provide a stable environment for people illegally in the country.
    - noelherrick 7y ago
      The legislative process is not the only feedback system that is enshrined in the US constitution, else there would be no mention of public gatherings or protests. What you suggest is a false dichotomy.
    - jakelazaroff 7y ago
      ICE itself routinely breaks laws in trying to capture undocumented people. But to speak to your point directly, I would love to see immigration reform. Until then, I’ll absolutely keep speaking out against ICE. That’s not “virtue signaling”, it’s just advocating for a cause I care about. Furthermore, basically everything Microsoft did that made developers hate them is legal. Why is it okay to hold a grudge for “embrace, extend, extinguish” but not for aiding and abetting an organization that consistently violates our civil liberties?
BurningFrog 7y ago
I try to not anthropomorphize companies. They're made up of many small and hardly interconnected parts. Whoever made some despicable decisions 25 years ago, almost certainly don't work there anymore.
- kortilla 7y ago
  Gates just finally stepped away from the chair. When that shit comes from the top, it gets baked into the culture and has a staying power beyond any tenure.

dcgudeman 7y ago

Well you certainly picked a username that reflects your views.

irrational 7y ago
What do irrational numbers like phi have to do with the lack of ethics of large corporations?
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]

pgt 7y ago

This is the curse of globalist behemoths. Small companies is where it's at. Localism.

crispinb 7y ago
Nonsense. There is hardly a local government in Australia not hopelessly corrupted by local real estate interests. In many nations local corruption is endemic right down to every neighbourhood police station. Size isn't the question: money's corruption of power operates at all scales.
- pgt 7y ago
  Size is absolutely the question. There is always corruption, but in small municipalities at least the scale of corruption is contained. In a sufficiently local area the corrupt has to brush shoulders with his unwilling benefactors and be shamed.
  - crispinb 7y ago
    Empirically, that's plainly false. Corruption declines, on any level, when the right policies & incentives are in place.

ocdtrekkie 7y ago

I definitely saw Microsoft-of-the-90s as corrupt and harmful, and I definitely see Google-of-today as corrupt and harmful. I am not wholly opposed to the idea that both are bigger than companies should be allowed to be. But apart from the fact that they followed the unfortunate modern trend to add telemetry to things, I can't really say Microsoft has done anything particularly offensive to me in the past... nearly a decade? Just because you've been a developer for 25 years doesn't mean you should evaluate a company based on 25 year old events.

jakelazaroff 7y ago
One especially odious thing recently: GitHub works with ICE to round up and terrorize undocumented people and their families. https://www.latimes.com/business/technology/story/2019-12-04/github-open-source-developers-ice-contract https://www.latimes.com/business/technology/story/2019-12-04...
- kortilla 7y ago
  If you want an action to be made legal, you legalize it. Don’t blame the enforcement of the law. It makes for great virtue signaling but is useless for bringing long-term change and it doesn’t help provide a stable environment for people illegally in the country.
  - noelherrick 7y ago
    The legislative process is not the only feedback system that is enshrined in the US constitution, else there would be no mention of public gatherings or protests. What you suggest is a false dichotomy.
  - jakelazaroff 7y ago
    ICE itself routinely breaks laws in trying to capture undocumented people. But to speak to your point directly, I would love to see immigration reform. Until then, I’ll absolutely keep speaking out against ICE. That’s not “virtue signaling”, it’s just advocating for a cause I care about. Furthermore, basically everything Microsoft did that made developers hate them is legal. Why is it okay to hold a grudge for “embrace, extend, extinguish” but not for aiding and abetting an organization that consistently violates our civil liberties?

BurningFrog 7y ago

I try to not anthropomorphize companies. They're made up of many small and hardly interconnected parts. Whoever made some despicable decisions 25 years ago, almost certainly don't work there anymore.

kortilla 7y ago
Gates just finally stepped away from the chair. When that shit comes from the top, it gets baked into the culture and has a staying power beyond any tenure.