4 ms·

Safari.

stingraycharles 7y ago
Safari doesn’t have the market share that IE6 had, though. Chrome has.
dlivingston 7y ago
Care to explain? Safari has one of the highest standards compliance of any modern browser [0], which IE famously did not. It has been argued with various success [1] that Chrome is the new I.E., due to "Chrome exclusive" web standards. [0]: https://html5test.com/compare/browser/safari-11.2/chrome-30/firefox-60/edge-12.html https://html5test.com/compare/browser/safari-11.2/chrome-30/... [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16070595 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16070595
- sgtfrankieboy 7y ago
  If you are going to compare browsers make sure you aren't comparing against a version of Chrome from 2013. Here is the correct comparison: https://html5test.com/compare/browser/safari-11.2/chrome-68/firefox-60/edge-18.html https://html5test.com/compare/browser/safari-11.2/chrome-68/... Which clearly shows its the worst of the bunch. Edit: Also just noticed, the latest Chrome version that the site has is 68. We're currently on 80+
  - nickpresta 7y ago
    A more up-to-date, although not complete, comparison is available here: https://caniuse.com/#compare=firefox+74,chrome+80,safari+13 https://caniuse.com/#compare=firefox+74,chrome+80,safari+13
- saagarjha 7y ago
  Chrome is pushing version 80, I'm not sure why that website is using a version from seven years ago…
- Spivak 7y ago
  I think the honest truth is that a lot of developers see Safari similarly to IE because Firefox and Chrome are quick to jump on and ship new features and "if only Safari kept up" they could be used "everywhere". Combined with the fact that iOS is large enough that you can't just drop Safari support and tell them to use Chrome. It's a weird world where webdevs apparently ideally just want everyone on the 6 second old version version of Chrome. I totally get it -- it's an absolutely rational stance but it feels a lot like how devs felt about IE6 at the beginning.
  - oorza 7y ago
    You're right, IE6 was amazing at the time. It made a ton of things possible that previously hadn't been, and the standards bodies were lagging behind it. Had MS actually kept updating IE6 and kept it ahead of the standards, the standards would never have mattered, and we'd never have developed this sick taste for IE. No one hated that they had a monopoly, we hated that they had a stagnant monopoly.
    - aduitsis 7y ago
      Those of us that were using non-MS OSes like Linux or FreeBSD or Solaris back then hated it that sites were made to work correctly only on IE.
    - robertlagrant 7y ago
      Your comment just triggered the box model. Which is what I call my flashbacks about when hasLayout was true or not.
- lexicality 7y ago
  Not for Javascript it doesn't. Plus because it's tied to the OS and the phone determines the maximum OS you end up with a bunch of users stuck on ancient and buggy versions. This is to say nothing about the remote debugger purposefully locking you out of older versions for no reason to make debugging them harder.
- jbjorge 7y ago
  I've worked with projects that used iframes in safari. It had some of the weirdest bugs. Some random times it didn't render changes to the DOM. Sometimes when clicking input fields it would focus the surrounding iframe element. A webview in iOS could sometimes crash system wide. Not enough to restart the app. You'd have to restart the device. Felt like a sitcom when I had to ask customers if they'd tried turning it off and on again.
- manigandham 7y ago
  Safari is way behind Chrome and Firefox on web features and has all kinds of proprietary rules on existing implementations. It's not even required or the default install on any OS. And it has rapid updates that constantly test new features and improve performance and security. Any "exclusive" features are just early testing for later standardization. It's Safari that's lagging in implementing them.
- artursapek 7y ago
  I also can't run Safari on my Windows or Linux machines.
- Dahoon 7y ago
  Want to try something fun? Install any browser in iOS and do a test. Then do the same test with Safari. Now ponder why they are exactly the same no matter which browser you install.
  - dlivingston 7y ago
    If you're referencing Apple's mandate that WebKit be used as the engine for all iOS web rendering, then yes, that's a poor policy ostensibly made in the name of security. Not sure if that's what your point is, though.
    - Polylactic_acid 7y ago
      Can you imagine how much legal trouble microsoft would be in if they blocked alternative browsers in windows? Simply providing a single default was too much.

Safari.

Safari doesn’t have the market share that IE6 had, though. Chrome has.

Care to explain? Safari has one of the highest standards compliance of any modern browser [0], which IE famously did not. It has been argued with various success [1] that Chrome is the new I.E., due to "Chrome exclusive" web standards. [0]: https://html5test.com/compare/browser/safari-11.2/chrome-30/firefox-60/edge-12.html https://html5test.com/compare/browser/safari-11.2/chrome-30/... [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16070595 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16070595

sgtfrankieboy 7y ago
If you are going to compare browsers make sure you aren't comparing against a version of Chrome from 2013. Here is the correct comparison: https://html5test.com/compare/browser/safari-11.2/chrome-68/firefox-60/edge-18.html https://html5test.com/compare/browser/safari-11.2/chrome-68/... Which clearly shows its the worst of the bunch. Edit: Also just noticed, the latest Chrome version that the site has is 68. We're currently on 80+
- nickpresta 7y ago
  A more up-to-date, although not complete, comparison is available here: https://caniuse.com/#compare=firefox+74,chrome+80,safari+13 https://caniuse.com/#compare=firefox+74,chrome+80,safari+13
saagarjha 7y ago
Chrome is pushing version 80, I'm not sure why that website is using a version from seven years ago…
Spivak 7y ago
I think the honest truth is that a lot of developers see Safari similarly to IE because Firefox and Chrome are quick to jump on and ship new features and "if only Safari kept up" they could be used "everywhere". Combined with the fact that iOS is large enough that you can't just drop Safari support and tell them to use Chrome. It's a weird world where webdevs apparently ideally just want everyone on the 6 second old version version of Chrome. I totally get it -- it's an absolutely rational stance but it feels a lot like how devs felt about IE6 at the beginning.
- oorza 7y ago
  You're right, IE6 was amazing at the time. It made a ton of things possible that previously hadn't been, and the standards bodies were lagging behind it. Had MS actually kept updating IE6 and kept it ahead of the standards, the standards would never have mattered, and we'd never have developed this sick taste for IE. No one hated that they had a monopoly, we hated that they had a stagnant monopoly.
  - aduitsis 7y ago
    Those of us that were using non-MS OSes like Linux or FreeBSD or Solaris back then hated it that sites were made to work correctly only on IE.
  - robertlagrant 7y ago
    Your comment just triggered the box model. Which is what I call my flashbacks about when hasLayout was true or not.
lexicality 7y ago
Not for Javascript it doesn't. Plus because it's tied to the OS and the phone determines the maximum OS you end up with a bunch of users stuck on ancient and buggy versions. This is to say nothing about the remote debugger purposefully locking you out of older versions for no reason to make debugging them harder.
jbjorge 7y ago
I've worked with projects that used iframes in safari. It had some of the weirdest bugs. Some random times it didn't render changes to the DOM. Sometimes when clicking input fields it would focus the surrounding iframe element. A webview in iOS could sometimes crash system wide. Not enough to restart the app. You'd have to restart the device. Felt like a sitcom when I had to ask customers if they'd tried turning it off and on again.
manigandham 7y ago
Safari is way behind Chrome and Firefox on web features and has all kinds of proprietary rules on existing implementations. It's not even required or the default install on any OS. And it has rapid updates that constantly test new features and improve performance and security. Any "exclusive" features are just early testing for later standardization. It's Safari that's lagging in implementing them.
artursapek 7y ago
I also can't run Safari on my Windows or Linux machines.
Dahoon 7y ago
Want to try something fun? Install any browser in iOS and do a test. Then do the same test with Safari. Now ponder why they are exactly the same no matter which browser you install.
- dlivingston 7y ago
  If you're referencing Apple's mandate that WebKit be used as the engine for all iOS web rendering, then yes, that's a poor policy ostensibly made in the name of security. Not sure if that's what your point is, though.
  - Polylactic_acid 7y ago
    Can you imagine how much legal trouble microsoft would be in if they blocked alternative browsers in windows? Simply providing a single default was too much.