5 ms·

The problem with the airlines is that pretty much everyone has been bitten by them one way or another(unexpected fees, unreasonable policies, etc..) so it will

The problem with the airlines is that pretty much everyone has been bitten by them one way or another(unexpected fees, unreasonable policies, etc..) so it will be difficult to get any sympathy from the public.

arrrg 7y ago
I have no sympathy for the airline as an abstract corporate entity. I do have tons of empathy for the many people who lost their job.
chrisseaton 7y ago
Do you think most of these laid-off workers are responsible for the pricing structure and policies? Or do you think most of them are just working people trying to earn a living?
- noncoml 7y ago
  If you are talking about blue collar jobs I am with you. Anything above that and people have to start rethinking their choices and be held accountable for their choices. By the same token I shouldn’t hold accountable Google or FB engineers who are just trying to make a living. Or soldiers who did atrocities because they were just trying to be good soldiers.
  - chrisseaton 7y ago
    > By the same token I shouldn’t hold accountable Google or FB engineers who are just trying to make a living. No you shouldn't - they need to put food on their families' tables just like you do. > Or soldiers who did atrocities because they were just trying to be good soldiers. Well committing an atrocity is a crime. If people are acting criminally that's different. And if they're committing atrocities then they aren't good soldiers, are they?
    - noncoml 7y ago
      > > By the same token I shouldn’t hold accountable Google or FB engineers who are just trying to make a living. > No you shouldn't - they need to put food on their families' tables just like you do. I disagree. They have any option who to work for, as you and I, and they chose to work for unethical companies. They don't need to put food on their families' table. I am not judging as everyone makes their own choices, but it's good to hold them responsible. Maybe I would have done the same or do so in the future. But I wouldn't expect people to feel empathy for me when shit hit the fan.
      - chrisseaton 7y ago
        > They have any option who to work for Many people don't. Tech interviews are unforgiving. Some people have to take the opportunities they get offered to them. Even if you can pass an elite Google interview one time that doesn't mean you'd get past the interview anywhere else. > They don't need to put food on their families' table. Their families can starve? > I wouldn't expect people to feel empathy for me when shit hit the fan Hows about we all practice empathy with everyone, no matter what good or bad choices they've had to make to survive in the past?
inferiorhuman 7y ago
Yep. The NY Times is running an op-ed calling for a pound of flesh from the airlines before any bailout (due to customer treatment).
- zadkey 7y ago
  Could you share the link to the article?
  - inferiorhuman 7y ago
    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/16/opinion/airlines-bailout.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/16/opinion/airlines-bailout.... We cannot permit American and other airlines to use federal assistance, whether labeled a bailout or not, to weather the coronavirus crisis and then return to business as usual. Before providing any loan relief, tax breaks or cash transfers, we must demand that the airlines change how they treat their customers and employees and make basic changes in industry ownership structure.
- Seanambers 7y ago
  The irony is that airlines because they are running such a tight rope profitability wise has to make 'extras & service' cost money to be profitable. And the definition of extras is ambiguous to say the least. As an industry they provide an exceptional service, but it's rarely that they as comapnies are profitable over time.
nostromo 7y ago
Consumers: buying tickets at rock bottom prices and then expecting first class accommodations
duxup 7y ago
I'm sure some folks who are upset already will remain upset. However I don't expect any kind of real 'new' outrage from this particular action though. There aren't people flying... so yeah this result is pretty understandable. Most folks are understandably busy with other news.
bertil 7y ago
My and my partner regularly fly Norwegian in Europe and they are the best airline we can imagine. They are cheap; booking a flight is a breeze; you get meaningful benefits quite fast if you fly often; planes are modern. They stopped operating the main line that we use to visit, and you can see it immediately on the price. They recently introduced a fee for cabin-luggage which could be disputed but: 1. I don’t mind, I generally fly with a small bag; 2. my partner has enough miles to get free upgrades. No one has complained about it when boarding.
kjaftaedi 7y ago
Unfortunately most of the fees you are referring to are a result of consumer behaviour. Most people use price checking sites to purchase tickets, and because people only look at the initial price tag and fees aren't calculated until the end.. budget airlines started gaming the system to appear even cheaper. (shifting costs into fees and away from the fare) Since consumers won't change their habits, many or even most airlines had to adopt the same practices in order to compete. If you've ever used a price checking site to search for airline tickets, you've likely contributed to creating this problem.
Nimitz14 7y ago
You seem to have falsely generalised based on your experiences with whatever local airlines you use. Norwegian and other european carriers have quite a good reputation, people understand that the low cost has a price.

arrrg 7y ago

I have no sympathy for the airline as an abstract corporate entity. I do have tons of empathy for the many people who lost their job.

chrisseaton 7y ago

Do you think most of these laid-off workers are responsible for the pricing structure and policies? Or do you think most of them are just working people trying to earn a living?

noncoml 7y ago
If you are talking about blue collar jobs I am with you. Anything above that and people have to start rethinking their choices and be held accountable for their choices. By the same token I shouldn’t hold accountable Google or FB engineers who are just trying to make a living. Or soldiers who did atrocities because they were just trying to be good soldiers.
- chrisseaton 7y ago
  > By the same token I shouldn’t hold accountable Google or FB engineers who are just trying to make a living. No you shouldn't - they need to put food on their families' tables just like you do. > Or soldiers who did atrocities because they were just trying to be good soldiers. Well committing an atrocity is a crime. If people are acting criminally that's different. And if they're committing atrocities then they aren't good soldiers, are they?
  - noncoml 7y ago
    > > By the same token I shouldn’t hold accountable Google or FB engineers who are just trying to make a living. > No you shouldn't - they need to put food on their families' tables just like you do. I disagree. They have any option who to work for, as you and I, and they chose to work for unethical companies. They don't need to put food on their families' table. I am not judging as everyone makes their own choices, but it's good to hold them responsible. Maybe I would have done the same or do so in the future. But I wouldn't expect people to feel empathy for me when shit hit the fan.
    - chrisseaton 7y ago
      > They have any option who to work for Many people don't. Tech interviews are unforgiving. Some people have to take the opportunities they get offered to them. Even if you can pass an elite Google interview one time that doesn't mean you'd get past the interview anywhere else. > They don't need to put food on their families' table. Their families can starve? > I wouldn't expect people to feel empathy for me when shit hit the fan Hows about we all practice empathy with everyone, no matter what good or bad choices they've had to make to survive in the past?

inferiorhuman 7y ago

Yep. The NY Times is running an op-ed calling for a pound of flesh from the airlines before any bailout (due to customer treatment).

zadkey 7y ago
Could you share the link to the article?
- inferiorhuman 7y ago
  https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/16/opinion/airlines-bailout.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/16/opinion/airlines-bailout.... We cannot permit American and other airlines to use federal assistance, whether labeled a bailout or not, to weather the coronavirus crisis and then return to business as usual. Before providing any loan relief, tax breaks or cash transfers, we must demand that the airlines change how they treat their customers and employees and make basic changes in industry ownership structure.
Seanambers 7y ago
The irony is that airlines because they are running such a tight rope profitability wise has to make 'extras & service' cost money to be profitable. And the definition of extras is ambiguous to say the least. As an industry they provide an exceptional service, but it's rarely that they as comapnies are profitable over time.

nostromo 7y ago

Consumers: buying tickets at rock bottom prices and then expecting first class accommodations

duxup 7y ago

I'm sure some folks who are upset already will remain upset. However I don't expect any kind of real 'new' outrage from this particular action though. There aren't people flying... so yeah this result is pretty understandable. Most folks are understandably busy with other news.

bertil 7y ago

My and my partner regularly fly Norwegian in Europe and they are the best airline we can imagine. They are cheap; booking a flight is a breeze; you get meaningful benefits quite fast if you fly often; planes are modern. They stopped operating the main line that we use to visit, and you can see it immediately on the price. They recently introduced a fee for cabin-luggage which could be disputed but: 1. I don’t mind, I generally fly with a small bag; 2. my partner has enough miles to get free upgrades. No one has complained about it when boarding.

kjaftaedi 7y ago

Unfortunately most of the fees you are referring to are a result of consumer behaviour. Most people use price checking sites to purchase tickets, and because people only look at the initial price tag and fees aren't calculated until the end.. budget airlines started gaming the system to appear even cheaper. (shifting costs into fees and away from the fare) Since consumers won't change their habits, many or even most airlines had to adopt the same practices in order to compete. If you've ever used a price checking site to search for airline tickets, you've likely contributed to creating this problem.

Nimitz14 7y ago

You seem to have falsely generalised based on your experiences with whatever local airlines you use. Norwegian and other european carriers have quite a good reputation, people understand that the low cost has a price.