6 ms·

A big problem is trucks and SUVs in general are being elevated with higher and higher ride heights, without pointing headlights down at an angle to compensate f

by auiya 7y ago

A big problem is trucks and SUVs in general are being elevated with higher and higher ride heights, without pointing headlights down at an angle to compensate for the increased ride height. If you're driving a normal car, and not one of these bloated moon rovers or nuisance-sized farm vehicles, you're getting their headlights pointed straight at your face.

calvinmorrison 7y ago
I was under the impression that we had DOT bumper regulations that the bottom of the bumper couldn't exceed 24 inches. I was brought to this attention when a school bus decided to backup and went over my entire hood causing no damage. It's bumper was roughly at eye level for me!
- speeder 7y ago
  In brazil the government requires tall vehicles to have two bumpers, the normal OEM one, and an extra one intended to stop smaller vehicles crashing into the back of the tall one. This was because eye-level bumpers tend to decapitate people during pile-ups... since they are, after all, eye level...
  - magduf 7y ago
    It would be nice if the US adopted a law like that... I guess that requires too much governmental competence.
    - dmckeon 7y ago
      For commercial trucks, there is a law - search “Mansfield bar” or (possibly NSFW image) https://sparebumper.com/the-mansfield-bar-jayne-mansfield-and-the-collision-that-took-her-life/ https://sparebumper.com/the-mansfield-bar-jayne-mansfield-an...
      - _bxg1 7y ago
        It seems crazy that it doesn't apply to civilian vehicles too
        kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
        It does but it only gets enforced for new vehicles. See the rear bumper mods that were required for the Mercedes G-Wagen 4x4 Squared. Note that federal regs prevented the activation of the LED aux lights for these as well. https://youtu.be/kgcAA4HUxuE?t=229 https://youtu.be/kgcAA4HUxuE?t=229 https://youtu.be/kgcAA4HUxuE?t=388 https://youtu.be/kgcAA4HUxuE?t=388
        _bxg1 7y ago
        The problem is that most of the inappropriately-tall consumer vehicles get that way after the fact. I.e., people modify them. If this is only getting enforced at the manufacturer level, instead of the vehicle-inspection level, it's not going to accomplish much in that category.
        kube-system 7y ago
        Passenger vehicles don't need a Mansfield bar, because their primary crash structure has to be between 16 and 20 inches from the ground.
  - auiya 7y ago
    We have those here too. They aren't very effective. https://www.snopes.com/tachyon/images/photos/accident/graphics/texting.jpg https://www.snopes.com/tachyon/images/photos/accident/graphi...
    - kube-system 7y ago
      The standard could be improved, and they don't prevent everything, but in general they are effective. https://www.iihs.org/news/detail/iihs-recognizes-semitrailers-with-good-underride-guards https://www.iihs.org/news/detail/iihs-recognizes-semitrailer...
  - zip1234 7y ago
    Note that this does not address the fact that high bumpers are death for pedestrians. This addresses the issue of collisions with cars, but tall vehicles in general are really bad for pedestrians.
    - Florin_Andrei 7y ago
      > high bumpers are death for pedestrians The typical counter-argument to that involves some sort of abuse of the notion of freedom. (Not endorsing, of course, just mentioning it.)
      - HenryBemis 7y ago
        "People are stupid" is not a valid argument to move towards a solution. "Developing and establishing Standards, training appropriate authorities and giving them the right tools/equipment to measure/identify violators, legislate appropriate fines" is. Hand anyone who does this a $1000 fine, and see how fast the whole country falls in line.
      - naravara 7y ago
        There is the adage about freedom ending at the point my fist meets your face. In this case, I guess it's more about where my face meets your windshield.
    - kube-system 7y ago
      A tall profile is pretty much inevitable for vehicles that carry cargo. Even places with strict pedestrian safety standards haven't solved that.
      - naravara 7y ago
        The problem is that we have way more tall profile vehicles out there than we do cargo being carried. It's not really a necessity, lots of people are just buying these things because they like the aesthetic moreso than having any practical need for them. Plus I'm not even sure the general statement is really that true. The El Camino was a regular car profile. If you're just buying a pick up to haul furniture around rather than, say, bales of hay you don't need it to be that tall.
  - Gibbon1 7y ago
    In the US trucks are required to have 'Mansfield Bars' after Jame Mansfield who died in an accident with a trailer truck. https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/28155/how-jayne-mansfield-changed-design-tractor-trailers https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/28155/how-jayne-mansfiel...
- lutorm 7y ago
  There are definitely regulations for the range of heights headlights must be placed within. It's a fairly large range though.
- gshdg 7y ago
  Lights can become higher at the same bumper height when grilles become taller, as is happening with a lot of pickups and SUVs.
leetcrew 7y ago
I'm not really sure how to fix this outside of just prohibiting high ride heights altogether (probably a non-starter). it's an inherent geometric problem. suppose on a normal height vehicle, the lowbeams are aimed so the center of the beam hits position x on the pavement ahead of the vehicle. after lifting it, you readjust them so they're still centered at x. at any position between x and the emitting vehicle, the center of the beam is still higher than it was before. if you overcompensate so the center hits the ground before x, you are illuminating less of the ground ahead which is less safe in its own way. don't get me wrong, I am very sympathetic to this issue. I drive a pretty low car and I get blinded any time there's a pickup behind me at night.
- woah 7y ago
  Lower headlights???
  - leetcrew 7y ago
    okay, that's a pretty obvious solution that I missed. I guess it might not be acceptable for a "work" or "offroad" vehicle to have delicate components placed so low, but it would certainly be okay for most of what these vehicles actually get used for.
    - MegaButts 7y ago
      While it's more expensive, headlights can also reorient themselves dynamically. You tend to see it on mid-tier vehicles and up, but it's a really great feature. So there is a technical solution to this problem, although I'd rather have a simpler approach that's also cheaper that works for most people (as much as I love my headlights, I realize it's one more thing that can break).
      - leetcrew 7y ago
        yeah I read an article on ars a while ago about this. very cool. I sort of worry how those systems will age though. perhaps in 2035, audis from 2020 will be performing light shows wherever they go.
kube-system 7y ago
> A big problem is trucks and SUVs in general are being elevated with higher and higher ride heights Honestly, this problem has been getting better in recent years due to two factors: 1. Newer vehicles, particularly SUVS, are increasingly not of a body-on-frame design that is trivial to lift. It is rare to see aftermarket-lifted unibody SUVs on the road in the US. 2. Automakers have started cooperating in increasing the crash compatibility of their vehicles. For example: the Enhancing Vehicle-to-Vehicle Crash Compatibility Agreement of 2003.
clSTophEjUdRanu 7y ago
One of my friends laughs about blinding everyone in cars with his truck.
- zemptime 7y ago
  I hope you vitriolically react with "you're a f@#$^!n dick, man" or some other kind of pressure to get him to get the message: "endangering others is bad and you're losing respect/status by doing so." My truck driver friends improved fairly quickly after I sat shotgun a couple times
- briefcomment 7y ago
  What a weird reaction. How could you correct something like that? Better parenting? I'm thinking of flashing my high beams whenever I pass drivers with lights too bright. Maybe they're just not aware. I flash my highs at drivers with their headlights off at night because it's dangerous. No reason to not do the same when it's dangerous on the other end of the spectrum.
  - yellowapple 7y ago
    I already do flash mine at drivers who leave theirs on.
  - droidist2 7y ago
    I wish I could do that but they're always behind me when I notice this, blinding me through my mirrors.

by auiya 7y ago

calvinmorrison 7y ago

I was under the impression that we had DOT bumper regulations that the bottom of the bumper couldn't exceed 24 inches. I was brought to this attention when a school bus decided to backup and went over my entire hood causing no damage. It's bumper was roughly at eye level for me!

speeder 7y ago
In brazil the government requires tall vehicles to have two bumpers, the normal OEM one, and an extra one intended to stop smaller vehicles crashing into the back of the tall one. This was because eye-level bumpers tend to decapitate people during pile-ups... since they are, after all, eye level...
- magduf 7y ago
  It would be nice if the US adopted a law like that... I guess that requires too much governmental competence.
  - dmckeon 7y ago
    For commercial trucks, there is a law - search “Mansfield bar” or (possibly NSFW image) https://sparebumper.com/the-mansfield-bar-jayne-mansfield-and-the-collision-that-took-her-life/ https://sparebumper.com/the-mansfield-bar-jayne-mansfield-an...
    - _bxg1 7y ago
      It seems crazy that it doesn't apply to civilian vehicles too
      - kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
        It does but it only gets enforced for new vehicles. See the rear bumper mods that were required for the Mercedes G-Wagen 4x4 Squared. Note that federal regs prevented the activation of the LED aux lights for these as well. https://youtu.be/kgcAA4HUxuE?t=229 https://youtu.be/kgcAA4HUxuE?t=229 https://youtu.be/kgcAA4HUxuE?t=388 https://youtu.be/kgcAA4HUxuE?t=388
        _bxg1 7y ago
        The problem is that most of the inappropriately-tall consumer vehicles get that way after the fact. I.e., people modify them. If this is only getting enforced at the manufacturer level, instead of the vehicle-inspection level, it's not going to accomplish much in that category.
      - kube-system 7y ago
        Passenger vehicles don't need a Mansfield bar, because their primary crash structure has to be between 16 and 20 inches from the ground.
- auiya 7y ago
  We have those here too. They aren't very effective. https://www.snopes.com/tachyon/images/photos/accident/graphics/texting.jpg https://www.snopes.com/tachyon/images/photos/accident/graphi...
  - kube-system 7y ago
    The standard could be improved, and they don't prevent everything, but in general they are effective. https://www.iihs.org/news/detail/iihs-recognizes-semitrailers-with-good-underride-guards https://www.iihs.org/news/detail/iihs-recognizes-semitrailer...
- zip1234 7y ago
  Note that this does not address the fact that high bumpers are death for pedestrians. This addresses the issue of collisions with cars, but tall vehicles in general are really bad for pedestrians.
  - Florin_Andrei 7y ago
    > high bumpers are death for pedestrians The typical counter-argument to that involves some sort of abuse of the notion of freedom. (Not endorsing, of course, just mentioning it.)
    - HenryBemis 7y ago
      "People are stupid" is not a valid argument to move towards a solution. "Developing and establishing Standards, training appropriate authorities and giving them the right tools/equipment to measure/identify violators, legislate appropriate fines" is. Hand anyone who does this a $1000 fine, and see how fast the whole country falls in line.
    - naravara 7y ago
      There is the adage about freedom ending at the point my fist meets your face. In this case, I guess it's more about where my face meets your windshield.
  - kube-system 7y ago
    A tall profile is pretty much inevitable for vehicles that carry cargo. Even places with strict pedestrian safety standards haven't solved that.
    - naravara 7y ago
      The problem is that we have way more tall profile vehicles out there than we do cargo being carried. It's not really a necessity, lots of people are just buying these things because they like the aesthetic moreso than having any practical need for them. Plus I'm not even sure the general statement is really that true. The El Camino was a regular car profile. If you're just buying a pick up to haul furniture around rather than, say, bales of hay you don't need it to be that tall.
- Gibbon1 7y ago
  In the US trucks are required to have 'Mansfield Bars' after Jame Mansfield who died in an accident with a trailer truck. https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/28155/how-jayne-mansfield-changed-design-tractor-trailers https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/28155/how-jayne-mansfiel...
lutorm 7y ago
There are definitely regulations for the range of heights headlights must be placed within. It's a fairly large range though.
gshdg 7y ago
Lights can become higher at the same bumper height when grilles become taller, as is happening with a lot of pickups and SUVs.

leetcrew 7y ago

I'm not really sure how to fix this outside of just prohibiting high ride heights altogether (probably a non-starter). it's an inherent geometric problem. suppose on a normal height vehicle, the lowbeams are aimed so the center of the beam hits position x on the pavement ahead of the vehicle. after lifting it, you readjust them so they're still centered at x. at any position between x and the emitting vehicle, the center of the beam is still higher than it was before. if you overcompensate so the center hits the ground before x, you are illuminating less of the ground ahead which is less safe in its own way. don't get me wrong, I am very sympathetic to this issue. I drive a pretty low car and I get blinded any time there's a pickup behind me at night.

woah 7y ago
Lower headlights???
- leetcrew 7y ago
  okay, that's a pretty obvious solution that I missed. I guess it might not be acceptable for a "work" or "offroad" vehicle to have delicate components placed so low, but it would certainly be okay for most of what these vehicles actually get used for.
  - MegaButts 7y ago
    While it's more expensive, headlights can also reorient themselves dynamically. You tend to see it on mid-tier vehicles and up, but it's a really great feature. So there is a technical solution to this problem, although I'd rather have a simpler approach that's also cheaper that works for most people (as much as I love my headlights, I realize it's one more thing that can break).
    - leetcrew 7y ago
      yeah I read an article on ars a while ago about this. very cool. I sort of worry how those systems will age though. perhaps in 2035, audis from 2020 will be performing light shows wherever they go.

kube-system 7y ago

> A big problem is trucks and SUVs in general are being elevated with higher and higher ride heights Honestly, this problem has been getting better in recent years due to two factors: 1. Newer vehicles, particularly SUVS, are increasingly not of a body-on-frame design that is trivial to lift. It is rare to see aftermarket-lifted unibody SUVs on the road in the US. 2. Automakers have started cooperating in increasing the crash compatibility of their vehicles. For example: the Enhancing Vehicle-to-Vehicle Crash Compatibility Agreement of 2003.

clSTophEjUdRanu 7y ago

One of my friends laughs about blinding everyone in cars with his truck.

zemptime 7y ago
I hope you vitriolically react with "you're a f@#$^!n dick, man" or some other kind of pressure to get him to get the message: "endangering others is bad and you're losing respect/status by doing so." My truck driver friends improved fairly quickly after I sat shotgun a couple times
briefcomment 7y ago
What a weird reaction. How could you correct something like that? Better parenting? I'm thinking of flashing my high beams whenever I pass drivers with lights too bright. Maybe they're just not aware. I flash my highs at drivers with their headlights off at night because it's dangerous. No reason to not do the same when it's dangerous on the other end of the spectrum.
- yellowapple 7y ago
  I already do flash mine at drivers who leave theirs on.
- droidist2 7y ago
  I wish I could do that but they're always behind me when I notice this, blinding me through my mirrors.